Good ole home town honesty
 

I was home last night and was watching the TRI NATIONS CUP going on up here in Kitchener, Ontario. Its a preliminary tournament to the Olimpics this summer in China. The 3 teams are Australia, Japan and Canada.
Last night's 2nd game was between Japan & Canada. Score was 0 to 0 going into the 3rd with team Canada batting. B1 hit what appeared to be a home run over the left center fence, it appeared to mjust clear the fence rail on a semi line drive arc. While the HOME town fans are all up and cheering , F9 & F8 for Japan are pointing at the fence at what apeared to be a hole just under the top rail.
Out comes the Japenese coach along with the interpretor to talk with the 2nd base ump who had given the homerun sign from about mid outfield. After about a minute of conversing with the ump they finally talked the ump into going to the fence where the talked for a few more minutes. Thru the camera you could see the ump saying and signalling homerun then a bunch of the spectatores who were sitting in their seats right behind the fence got up and started talking with the group on the field thru the fence. You could actually see them point to the hole and nodding their heads that yes the ball passed thru the hole.
Then the camera sort of focuses on the ump and you sorta see his head sag realizing what is about to transpire. Does he stick with his initial call or does he reverse it and rule a ground rule dble. You have the interpretor standing there listening to the fans who say yes the ball passed thru the hole and she is passing all of this onto the players.
Well the ump changed his call to a GRD, now out comes the Canadian coach and there is another 3 minute conversation then she turns and struts on back to her 3rd base coaching box.
Under the same situation would any of you guys changed your call or would you have stuck it out?

By the way, next batter hit a 2 run shot well over the fence basically the same area.

I would like to think that it would not happen in my game. I would have
caught it during the walk of the field and had it corrected. :D

If you are sure you were wrong.
Spectator comments are not necessarily sure evidence.

Even if the home team fans were saying that the home team should only get a GRD instead of a HR I would not change the call unless a replay in my mind told me that there was a very good chance that what I initially saw was wrong.

Did they ever fix the hole? Did they or could they do it right away? In this type of play can the umpire(s) hold up the game until the hole is fixed?

If I had solid information from a reliable source that I may have missed something, I'd be willing to consider changing my call. I don't know if I would take the word of spectators, but let's say it's a outfielder who admits the ball tipped off his glove and over the fence, knowing full well that it will be a 4-base award. That kind of honesty should be respected, and I believe that kind of confession should be taken into account when reconsidering a call.

If I could change a clearly wrong call to a good call... definitely maybe.

To be honest I don't know if the diamonds were checked prior to the start of this mini tournament, but I would assume so. ( course you all know what *** u me means.) These were all Level 5 umpires, 2 of which are going to the games in China.
The outfield fence in this park are made of a material that resembles a vinyl, plastics type. They are very light and are made to be adjustable, depending on who's using the field, Ladies fastball, men's fastball or slo-pitch. They are about 10 years old and they say the sun is breaking them down. Last year during the men's ISF Worlds a pitcher actually put a ball thru one section while warming up.
As per the sit mention in the opening post, they are not sure if the batted ball just went thru a weak spot in the fence or if there was actually a hole there according to a local sports enthusist.
Some one has said that there is plans in the works to purchace a different type of fence for this complex within the next 2 years.

Who cares if they were checked. You dont go check home run fences and have them repaired before the game unless the wind is blowing them down. A hole in a fence is a non issue.

You never walk the field before the game?

Rarely. The only time Ive ever had a home run fence fixed, which consisted I think of some rope and duct tape, was because the wind kept blowing a section down. I'm not wandering around the out field. Thats lame.

While lame, it's what I do for a big game. I can clear up most situations in advance, and it shows the coaches that I care enough about their game that I start things as prepared as possible.

For most of the league games I call, I don't really need to do that unless there's been a big downpour. The leagues around here are so gun-ho about getting games in, they sometimes overlook big safety issues. If I've got a safety issue on the field, I won't let the game continue until it's fixed.

a hole in the home run fence is not a safety issue.

If I show up for a game and am doing the equipment check and my partner is wandering around the outfield having holes plugged in the home run fence, i am going to be irritated and know what kind of smitty I am working with.

Hole in a fence is a ground rule, not a repair issue.

This wasn't a safety issue.

If the hole was there before the game started, it might have helped for the umpire to have been aware of it, but it was not a safety issue.

I know it's not a safety issue, but if you spot it in advance, then you're aware of it in advance, rather than being surprised when all of a sudden, "oh, there's a gap."

It was probably a one-in-a-million shot, but well... Looks like we have a winner.

I'll take 50/50 odds straight away of getting it right on a 1 in a million shot anyday. And its a lot less time and energy pregame wandering around the outfield. :D

You polish your shoes?

Of course!

I am a poster child of ASA Perfection.

[quote=wadeintothem]

If I show up for a game and am doing the equipment check and my partner is wandering around the outfield having holes plugged in the home run fence, i am going to be irritated and know what kind of smitty I am working with.

quote]

At least you check equipment....:mad:

What is wrong with you Wade?
You are getting more and more combative all the while knowing you are wrong and are conveying the exact opposite impression of what you say you want.
Equipment checks should be done by the crew, as should a field walk through every game at a new site.
If you have a double header, then maybe not a second walk through.
Relying on your partner to know the ground issues isn't going to help when you have to make a call in his area because he has a train wreck of some sort or God forbid he goes down.

You need to take a break from the game and go back to being a observer until you can enjoy the game and give your best effort again.

So you prepare yourself before each game (or night of games). You accept that there are things that you must do before the game that will show that you take pride in your work and respect the game. You show that you are prepared to call the game in front of you.

Walking the field is one more demonstration of preparation, especially when you find something (like a gap in a wall) that you bring up in a pre-game meeting. Will it reflect negatively upon you if you don't bring it up? No.

But it will reflect positively upon you, and it takes some of the wind out of some coaches' sails when you do those little things.

Nah, it's just near the end of the season in a lot of places, and I'll admit I start getting a little combative towards the end of the season.

I'm not trying to ride wade. I think it's good to have these kinds of debates here, rather than on the field before, in the middle of, or after a game. I think people here know me well enough to know that I'm just not that way.

Friendly debate, that's all it is to me. :)

Come on Wade, you know better than. Checking fence lines, unusual holes,
wires, poles, etc. That is part of our job.

Ground rules is a job. You can establish ground rules.. or it can be covered by simple statements like "if it goes through the fence, throw your hands up and__________________ " whatever the ground rule is.

Having fences repaired for a hole pregame is not part of your job. If it was a safety issue ONLY.

It could happen, but its simply not.

I work hundreds of games a year, no one starts directing grounds crew to fix holes.

That is pregame only.

You guys are playing holier than thou pretend to simply make an argument. If you do start fixing stuff pregame which is not safety related, then that is lame, beyond your job as an official, and a waste of everyones time.. furthermore VERY smittyish.

[QUOTE=scottk_61]Spare me the drivel :rolleyes:

This is the comment I was addressing
Which is an absurd comment.

Whiskers_ump is right in that it is part of our job (explicitly stated in the book) to walk the field before games, especially on fields with which we are not familiar. Wade is correct in that it's not our job to fix fields before the game. That is the grounds crew's job. He is also correct in that obvious safety hazards should be fixed before the game, if possible.

However, I still think that it is our duty as umpires to walk the fields thoroughly and find these potential issues in advance, rather than say in the middle of a heated game, "oh, gee... I guess there's a hole there." I'm not saying we need to carry a ball around with us to test every nook and cranny. I am saying that we need to be proactive as umpires, and that finding these issues before the first pitch is one way to do that.

I think someone missed page 175 of the ASA Umpire Manual under Pre-game Responsibilities:

"Ensure the field is properly marked, that the pitcher's plate and bases are legal and at proper distances. It is important for the umpires to be together and walk the field so that any points or questions concerning the ground rules can be addressed. All obstacles which could or may create dead ball situations should be specifically noted and examined."

Sure looks like an umpire's duty to me. Then again, maybe it is too robotic a task.

Really?

Dont say something just to back track later like you've done a few times already.

Point out to me where the book says or even hints "have the fence repaired".

That backs up EXACTLY what I said, ground rules is the goal of the walk through, perhaps a safety issue.. but GROUND RULES.

Dont start back tracking Irish. Support what you say.

Mike never said, "have the fence repaired." Like you, I am only talking about ground rules at a pre-game. However, it helps to have a clear picture of situations where ground rules can come into effect, such as a hole in the fence. You don't have to point out every hole in the fence, but at least establish that you've inspected the field, found holes, and what fielders should do in the event of a blocked ball or a ball going through such holes.

And yet umpires at tournaments routinely have fences fixed, holes filled, obstructions removed, bunting/banners removed or repositioned and even a faucet in center field of a popular softball stadium covered.

Wonder how that happens?

Wade, I love ya, but you need either a really good horizontal mambo, a six pack, or a Midol.

I'm thinking all three.

Either you umpires are lying about what you have done in the few minutes pregame or you guys are pretty odd. Not only fixing fences .. but now filling holes, removing banners, working on faucets?

No wonder you work games in cowboy boots with all the bs you shovel.

'course ya gotta get there just a mite before actual game time...

I have held up the start of a game to deal with obvious playing field problems, but never for an outfield fence problem. That kind of stuff (even temp fences that have blown over) is just dealt with during the ground rules.

The only holes I've ever had filled in were mud holes! ;)

What do you do, show up 5 minutes prior to game time?
With our umpires, 45 mins is mandatory.
By the way, the game will wait until YOU get the preliminaries done.

I have it all pictured.. on some slow pitch softball field in Delaware, the teams are sitting there having their pregame adult beverages....

"Hey here comes the blue!" They say in anticipation of starting the game. The umpire, Ira, jumps out of his toyota, wearing his shorts, cowboy boots,and lil ball bag. The teams start to get ready to play, but the umpire wanders into the grass.

"Fill in that divot in left field!" The umpire shouts "You could lose an eye over there".

"Darn it, I need that hole in the fence duct taped! I could have to call a GRD, you know!". The umpire states, eyeing the poor conditions of his domain, a vein starting to pop out in his neck.

"And I want that 'J&J automotive' banner straightened! Its crooked." He yells.


The manager approaches the seething umpire.. "Blue, we just wanna play ball buddy".

"You are ejected!!!" The umpire yells, looking into his line up card holder, so as to not embarrass the coach. "Have you not read page 175 of the umpire manual?". The umpire stomps off, perhaps seeing another divot which could use fillin.

No I'm pretty much known as first. Usually around 1.5-2 hours early. I often fill in for your late buddies.

An hour and a half?
and you can't do a walk through on the field?
Hmmm, I think you have your plans out of whack, you drink the brown pop
AFTER the game.

Yep, the hole in the fence was in DE. The bunting was in FL, twice, the hole under the fence in Mobile and the faucet in OKC. BTW, there is a nice western wear store near the Biltmore in OKC.

Here you go with the real issue, you have traveled to Nationals, and he hasn't.
I wonder why (insert sarcasm here)?

Sheplers in OKC is good......but Drysdales in Tulsa is better, plus Drysdales is doing our umpire association apparels at a really good price :D

Yeah, but Drysdales in Tulsa isn't across the street from the umpire's hotel. :D

It would be if you came to a National here tho. Of course we got some nasty B this year. :)

Check Private Messages

You dont chime in often, but at least when you do, you make up for it by always being wrong.

I don't chime in often because it isn't often that I read such drivel by someone so hell bent on proving he is an a&&.

I am rarely wrong, especially when it comes to the stuff I care about.;)

Again, who is it that has hurt your little feelings so much that you feel the need to try and fight with everyone and denigrate what is important to others?

Look man, if you want to be a half-a&& umpire then go ahead.
But if that is what you want, don't try and drag down everyone else who aspires to be better at what the do.

I never agree with anyone all the time. I have agreed with a lot of what you have written over time and I see the tone change to one of frustration and combativness on your part.

Take a break for your own good before you burn some bridges with others here that you cannot afford to burn.

Scotty, the dr phil stuff aint workin fer ya. You post about drinking.. not knowing that I dont drink.. or at least not enough worth talking about. Maybe once or twice all year so far. nationals without knowing about that, and this "break" stuff, when I'm actually having the best year I've ever had. By this time last year I had probably 20 ejections. I did not want to have it that way this year and figured a difference route to go.. .and having a great time at it. I've had 3 evals this year, including at a 18G NQ, all excellent. I am sure I will do just as well at my NATIONAL this year.

You just dont know squat man, really. So bite me.

The stuff about drinkning was a joke, obviously your ability to understand humor has died as well as your attitude.

If your attitude represents the "best year" then man oh man it must suck to be on the field with you.

I hope you do well at your National and you will if you chuck the combative attitude you have.
Nationals today are not like they used to be so it will probably be safe to assume you won't get sent home early.
Keep the attitude and you will NOT be working the finals.

So, congrats on the National, which one and where?

You dont know my attitude on the field. I'm an the poster child of ASA perfection. I even do the useless stuff like sweep the pitchers plate. Scotty, again, youre not very good at the dr phil stuff.

Come on, guys, let's not make this personal. I'll gladly debate with wade any day, but in the end, that's all it is - a debate. He and I both obviously disagree on this subject, and I'm content to just leave it at that. Let's debate the subject, not the man.

AGREE - AGREE - AGREE
I was just about to say something about having to read through all the insults and being afraid of getting confused with a certain other forum.