3 Man Tag Ups -ASA
 

Gonna be doing alot of 3 umpire games this weekend. So it's a good chance for me to get a little better at this. I'm going over page 228 and some of the info has me a little puzzled. I'm hoping for some clarification here.

R1 at 1B. we have a fly ball that neither ump goes out on. The book says the tag up responsibility is the 1B ump.

So what happens to the 3B ump who started the play in the B slot. Does he just hang around 2B and watch the play ?

It seems to me that you're gonna have 2 umps standing at 2B on this. I'm assuming I'm missing something here.

Feedback please....

No you won't
 

Both base umpires will button hook in. The 3rd base umpire will have started in between first and second off the right shoulder of the 2nd baseman. The first base umpire will button hook into first and the 3rd base umpire will button hook into 2nd. The plate umpire will be moving to get an angle on the catch. Once the ball is caught or if the ball isn't caught, the 1st base umpire should rotate home and the plate umpire move to third.

Read page 221...explains it in more detail. U3 stays at 2B and prepares for any plays there. U3 has to be ready to make any call at 1B if U1 goes to cover HP.

Good description. I would love to see it changed, but probably not in my lifetime.

U1 watches the tag; if the play goes to 2nd, U3 has that play. U1 watches everything that happens at 1st, U3 watches everything that happens at 2nd. PU (if needed) rotates to 3rd, U1 then rotates home.

Just one umpire at 2nd.

With a single runner at 1st, U3 has one and only one base; 2nd. U3 does not care where 2B plays; U3 should stand in calling position 10-12 feet from 2nd, in a direct line of the front edge of 2nd and 3rd extended, where the call can be made without "getting into position".

When the ball is hit, U3 can adjust to the angle of a force throw, or buttonhook from that starting position; no reason to be off the shoulder of 2B, as no initial infield play will give U3 calling responsibility anywhere but 2nd.

I believe with a runner on 1B only, U3 begins at a point of 3B-2B extended about 12 feet - not off F4's right shoulder.

Don't confuse responsibility for the tag up at 1B with responsibility for the play at 2nd (should the runner attempt to advance).

Let's not forget, and I know this would need to be watched more in SP, that you need to be behind the infielders or a direct line between the closest on each side of the umpire. :cool:

And thats what I did...:o

Yep
 

I stand corrected! Thanks!

Yep
 

You are correct sir!

So I'm ump at 2B extended. R1 at 1B. We have a fly ball. No one goes out. Runner tags.

If defensive coach appeals, runner leaving early, I am assuming that would be my partners appreal to rule on since partner is responsible for tag ups at 1B ?

Actually
 

Depending on what happens on the play he could be responsible for 1st. If U1rotates home, he is responsible for both 1st and 2nd. But I agree with your main point on where the U3 should be positioned.

How?
 

How would you change it?

I would put U3 ump in the C for a runner on 1B only. No contention with players, fielder or runner, for running lanes; If U1 goes out, U3 has the entire game in front of him; can easily see ball, tag and be in position for a call at 2B; can still cover same areas if needed to go out; IMO, is in better position to see a tag on a steal; keeps the field more balanced and keeps U3 from running back and forth across the field every time a baserunning situation changes.

Nothing really changes except the ease of the umpire to attain a good position for the plays at hand. You actually have to work it to appreciate it.

Wouldn't it depend on...
 

Where the ball was hit?

If I remember right (and I'm going from memory), if the ball is hit down the line at 3rd base on a fly would'nt that be the plate umpire's responsibility?

Again, from memory...the plate umpire will always have the "uncovered" base on fly ball responsibility. The umpire at 2nd will have coverage from left field to right field and the umpire at the "covered" base would have from the fielder to the line and beyond.

Of course all of this depends on your UIC. I've been to National Championship Tournaments where our UIC said "Just split it down the middle".

If that happens (U1 rotates home), it would not be an "initial infield play", the phrase I used to attempt to qualify my statement.

I got it!
 

Initially U3 only has 2nd, but on a subsequent play his responsibilities may change based on U1 rotating home.

Got it!

Thanks!

Worked a game like this recently, was easy and all was covered. Also non-rotated, i.e., PU stayed home, BUs covered all bases. Plus, really helped with minimizing running on a very hot day.

Where did you get this positioning? I've checked all of my 3man power points and training material and I dont see 3b-2b extended. I was always taught to extend towards right center. 12ft 3-2b extended puts you farther back/deeper than I go.

Specifically:
- the NUS staff at the 2007 ASA Fast Pitch Camp in Georgia
- 2007 ASA Umpire Manual Pg. 255
- 2008 ASA Umpire Manual Pg. 221
- 2006 & 2007 NCAA Umpire Manuals Pg. 91

And I'm sure it's in my CCA manual, which at the moment is at home.

One variation in the CCA (NCAA) version. There, you set 6-9 feet, as they have determined the predominant play is the steal tag, not the (in my mind) obvious force on the lead runner. It has been stated (and I quote EA, EC and MM at the NCAA D1 Leadoff Classic) that not only is this the predominant play according their statistics, but that it is easier (or as easy, don't want to misquote) to step back to the force calling distance (because you must always adjust to the proper angle for the throw, anyway) than it is to step forward to the tag calling distance.

Sorry to hijack; this is one of my soapbox issues. Don't accept either the alleged statistic (asked for, but was treated as leper thereafter) nor the premise that moving in reverse on a play you are required to wait and read (ball is hit, see infielder field and make throw) is even remotely better than stepping forward into a play (steal or wild pitch) that you see coming all the way (on the pitch).

Well I'll have to take your word for it since I wasnt there.

No, actually, it doesnt say that or show 3b - 2b extended in the graphic. Nor does it show it in the NUS power point on 3 man.

Emily's hand out about 3 man mechanics shows towards right center, not towards 3b-2b extended, nor does it say that.

Dunno about the NCAA manual.

Basically you are one step inside the bag at 2b...right at the leading edge....perfect position for a tag play..very little movement for any other play.. .You are NOT in the standard "B" position since you have an umpire behind you.