Why Softball Rules Are Smarter
 

http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?mid=200806152937517

Luckily, the catcher is reported to be okay.

Umpire called a sympathy out as he was literally moving away from a good position to see if there was a tag.

I am a Cardinals fan, and I think you are right. I have replayed it several times and do not see how that contact could be considered a "tag."

Good to hear he's ok.

Lyrics from Johnny Cash:

I hear the train a comin'; it's rollin' 'round the bend,
And I ain't seen the sunshine since I don't know when.

I happened to be watching that game. There was another replay, probably from the 1st base dugout camera, which looked like he tagged the runner's knee as he reached behind himself, an instant before going down.

I kept trying to figure out if I would have ejected the runner if tat play happened in a softball game.
a) it did not look like the runner aimed at the catcher in the catcher's position taking the throw
b) the catcher did swing around into the runner's path whne it was too late for the runner to avoid
c) the runner made a mistake by not sliding (IMO, safe & no injury)
d) the runner caused the collision by not sliding
e) the runner crashed into the catcher, deliberate or not, with great force, so yes, ejection
What do you think?

What do you mean? Didn't he hold on to the ball? :D

What are you doing watching MLB, Mike???? :eek:

And the runner lowered this shoulder into the catcher; the catcher came up with his elbow into the runner just before the crash... Hard to say from the replay which one instigated the collision.

I would have tossed the runner. In a heartbeat.

I just watched it another five times, even stopped it a couple of time near the contact.

To me it looks clear the the only contact between was the runner literally bracing himself and putting his left leg into the back of the catcher and pushing down on his head and shoulder. I cannot possibly see how the catcher could have tagged the runner with the ball/glove.

A softball player would more likely slide on this play. If the runner slides on this play, he's safe and there is no question.

A softball catcher probably would have opened up and not tried to take the ball a long way around for a blind tag. Of course, a softball catcher's tag would have been late, but it beats a concussion.

A softball umpire, except for Wade, would have been set up off the back, outside corner of the RH box and would have had a perfect angle for the play. :) Tim McClelland seemed more interested into getting to 3B line extended than getting a good position for the ensuing play. I wonder what the purpose of the cute color-coordinated sweatband on McClelland's left are is.

I don't think I would have an ejection on the runner in the case. The catcher initiated the contact by moving into the runner's path at the last moment.

I believe those are for Father's Day and prostate cancer awareness. MLB umpires wore pink armbands on Mother's Day for breast cancer awareness.

I still don't understand why the owners, who are paying these guys millions of dollars, let this kind of crap happen at the plate. They should be demanding that the interfence and crash rules be enforced, if for no other reason than to protect their investments.

You are assuming that idiots with enough money to buy a team for a toy actually have some common sense and may be a bit more than slightly intelligent.:D

I guess this is another example of seeing what we want to see....looks to me like the runner runs into mitt and ball with his left knee and umpire is in perfect position.

Good point.

It's tough to pound sense into people's heads when they have rocks for brains.

Why would they do that? They have thousands of players who can play better and cheaper than the guys currently on the roster, and they're all waiting for their shot.

With that modification, I'll buy what you say, but being a fan of a small market MLB team, the "better" part is definitely not true.

Carlos Gomez is one exciting player, but he is no Torii Hunter. Too many bone-head plays and not nearly the power at the plate.
There is no one one in the Twins rotation within even "hoping to be there someday" distance of Johan Santana.
The only true MLB-level defensive infielder the Twins have is Nick Punto, and he can't hit.

This situation is not because there is vast untapped talent in the Twins farm system.

You can put away your red & white cane and feed the dog.

Based on the posted clip or the TV replay I referred to?

I think it is to remember what is left, thus the ball-arm (vs strike-arm) is. Might be a good trick. Shall try it out next weekend! I'm always confused, trying to remember what arm to raise for a strike...:)

Sander,

The reason you are always confused is because you make too many trips into Amsterdam to pick up deserts (brownies, etc) and tobacco.

It wouldn't make any difference whether or not you wore an arm band.

Larry:D

I don't understand why you would say something like the above remark.. Are you that insecure that you have to resort to those kind of remarks. It sure looks like the ump got the call right, not a sympathy call as you put it earlier.

Take a look at this video from youtube. It is easier to pause the video at least for me. You can clearly see the tag of the glove on the runner during contact at the 1:00 minute mark.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4VTY--IHgU

1. F2 tagged the runner.
2. Runner never touched the plate.

HA! I dont use 3BL extended very often.. usually by accident, when i instinctively get in a superior position for an hit to the outfield with runners in scoring position.. I whine here then do what I'm told... ie use ASA inferior positioning.

Obviously the call on this is a good one.

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/4017/tag1ni2.jpg


http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/4555/tag2va2.jpg

Those are two views of the tag, which the was barreled into like a brainless oaf.


Now, the next one is why there is an ejection in softball: leaning and throwing an elbow into the back, I dont think there is any question that is an ejection. In fact in softball and any youth sport, its no brainer for anyone except maybe someone with a frozen polluted water brain:

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/6191/ejectqh0.jpg


Its also why this thread might also be titled "why softball girls are smarter"

Because 99 out of 100 would have been easily safe on this going by the side and touching the plate with their hand.. the catcher would not even have got close.

I probably would have been to the side, but on a play where a runner is sliding like that, off to the side and reaching their hand in to catch a piece of the plate, obviously, 3BL is the best angle. I dont think its disputable.

Wade,
Great breakdown and explaination!! If He watches it another 5 times he will either understand........or all the rest of us will have to acknowledge that reguardless of the facts and evidence He is always right and everyone who disagrees is wrong and BLIND as he asserts!!:)

I just don't think Bruntlett had time to decide to slide headfirst to the outside. It happened very quickly live (I was watching on TV, though).

Well, I'm from the Philly area and am a lifelong Phillies fan, and I think he got the tag on Bruntlett. Of course, I'm also realistic enough to see that even if he did miss by an inch or three on the play, it would be a hard sell to call the runner safe there. McClelland can put himself wherever he wants. After 30+ years of MLB, he's gonna see what he needs to see.

To those talking about crash rules in MLB, well, there are none. That's the thing.

I'm pretty sure everyone knows that.

Except maybe post 12, which is what I was referring to.

The shot over the umpire's shoulder is basically useless as you lose any depth.

The angle from the side seems to be much better, but I don't think there is anything is clear. If you look closely at the side view which seems to show a tag, there is also a shot which looks as if the runner is touching the plate (@58 seconds). However, we know that isn't so from another angle.

With the quality of the clips available, I'm still not sure a tag was made, but with the different views and stills, I can see where it could be seen as a tag. I just wish the one person who was reponsible for it was in a better position.

I think that is part of the quandry....the person responsible was in a better position than any of the replay angles and did see a tag....which is how he deducted an out. In your preferred position there is no way he could have seen for sure as it was a swipe tag coming from the 1b foul side and would have placed the runners body and right leg between the ball/glove and tag. But go ahead and think the rest of us are blind and are out of position third base line extended...we (and McClelland/and many other MLB professionals) are wrong...you are right!! You've convinced us!! :)

I don't think so. "My" preferred position would have started and adjusted (but not much on this play) off the back outside corner of the RH box. And that would not have placed the any body part in front of the other as is seen from the shot above and behind the 3B dugout.

No, just out of position.

And yes, I do believe the MLB professionals are incorrect for the majority of baseball/softball. It may work for their level of ball with a 4-man crew, but not everything with bases and a stick.

The assumption of the position is that the runner is always going to be wide and the catcher will sweep. The mechanic is unreliable for anything coming straight down the line. Only because the "major leaguer" at 1B failed to give the catcher a decent throw did McClelland see any of that play. If the throw was to the glove side and Molina moved to block the plate, that would have put Molina's body between the umpire and the play. It wasn't as if McClelland was reacting to the bad throw as he was moving to his right the moment he saw F3 looking home.

Yeah, on a softball board, I believe you and MLB umpires use a less than favorable mechanic on 3BL extended.

Yes, McClelland saw the play. So did thousands of other people, but I did not say that I believe he saw the play at the proper angle. He had a two dimensional view. You talk about a 4th dimension, this umpire didn't have a 3rd.

He was in the MLB prescribed position, IMO, not the best.

A four umpire crew would matter under a softball scenario as we are trained to watch whatever play we can and do not get hung up on territory if input is needed. Don't know how many times I've heard baseball umpires talk about his play or my play and going for help is out of the question. Granted, old school, but it is still there.

On this play, the four umpire crew would not have made a difference. However, on other plays facing the infield, a PU on 3BL could get help from the base umpires, if necessary and the umpire is willing to use it. Again, in softball, we do not have the luxury of an umpire for each base and responsibilities are different.

Maybe you have seen this mechanic work. I have seen the mechanic not work and it was a Phillies game, again. Runner sliding at the plate. Catcher tagged the runner on a raised, bent knee and the umpire ruled the runner safe. What the umpire did not see was that the extended leg was not near the plate at the time of the tag. Maybe it was that baseball philosophy that a high tag equals safe or maybe the 3BL was a bad angle. The announcers and everyone else who saw the replay not only thinks, but knows the umpire blew a call made from a knee on the 3BL at the rim of the dirt.

I believe the ASA prescribed positioning gives the umpire a set-up which gives the umpire the best view for the multitude of possibilities and flexibility to move with the play.

IMO, there are too many umpires being pushed at the higher levels to be at point A and that's the end of the story. In the recent NCAA, there were umpires so intent on getting to point A, they almost lost the play. One umpire was so intent on getting to the 90 for the call at 1B, the umpire literally stepped into the middle of a possible play. Another so busy working the rim on a call at 3B, the possibility of a play seemed to be overlooked as the umpire placed themselves behind the play and would have missed any tag.

People talk about ASA umpires being too robotic. I would rather have an umpire be willing to get to a position to make sure of the best view and give a standard signal than have an umpire get to his/her prescribed point and make a call on a play not completely seen.

JMHO

Now that we can agree on. But you are the rare exception. No evaluator (unfortunately) in my area is going to say "wow that was not 'point A as prescribed' but you had a great view."

You are going to get dinged because the book says with Runners on 1 and 2 in a 2 man system on a ball hit here and a play there, you be in Z position.

And if that is the case, the NCAA needs to do a better job with those they allow to make such evaluations whether at the local association or higher levels of authority.

As we all know, the idea is to get it right and the mentality you describe here seems to be placing appearance above the game. IMO, that is unhealthy for the game and the umpires, in general.

I know there aren't, but there should be. They're playing baseball, not football or hockey.