Spectators
 

Working game alone the other night for local youth softball league. We have your standard cheering from the benches, and on occasion I have had to tell teams that it has gone to far or that the cheer is innappropriate. Had a coach yelling swing one night, got that stopped, then had his catcher start, nipped that in the bud, but how do you handle spectators doing it?

In the game I was working, 3-2 count, pitch was well outside and heard someone yell swing from my right side, but wasnt from bench area. Looked around, but couldnt tell who did it. Couple of batters later, 0-2 count on batter, I hear someone yell swing, this time further back behind me. Turned and looked, still not obviouse who is doing it. Next inning it happens again, but directly behind me. This time I walked to screen and said that would be enough yelling swing. I dont like to get into it with the parents/spectators, but at what point do you draw the line for what is acceptable/unacceptable for the players/coaches vs the spectators?

Ignore the crowd unless profanity involved, remember the Ferris Bueller line?- Saaahwiinng, Baatter, bbaatter"- thats part of the game...any other fan issues, you shouldnt talk to fans, have LD, game mngmnt, or home coach deal with it-- if necessary, put both teams in the dugouts until problem is solved--parents want to watch their kids play, not sit--

I don't see a problem with parents yelling "Swing." They're not being vulgar or rude. We have enough to do then to nitpick what parents say.
When I played little league years ago, the infield was taught to chant, 'hey, batter, batter, hey batter, batter, SWING!"

If you're working 10U or younger then you might remind the coach that the players are learning and when they hear somebody say swing they do it, but any competitive ball, the batter should be able to ignore spectators.

I also remember yelling hey batta batta, SWING in LL. It was allowed my first year, 2nd year we were told we couldnt do it anymore.

When umpiring, umpire. The spectators are not your issue unless you have been specifically directed to act in a certain manner. Let someone from the association deal with the spectators.

The only time I may deal with spectators during a game is when I remove them from behind the backstop.

Why do you care about that?

He's afraid they will steal his kitchen timer :D

I should have elaborated I guess.

I don't care what specs behind the backstop do unless they:
1. Direct negative comments towards me or about the strike zone.
2. Attempt to distract the batter (vocally) or pitcher (vocally or physically).
3. Tip pitches to the batter.

If I catch any of the above, I'm politely asking them to move.

Specs who simply sit back there to get a nice look at the game don't bother me none.

Ha!

That there is funny.

Hey you know it was proposed to fine umps in our area who dont use one...

They are going to fine you if you don't use a kitchen timer?:confused:

No I said it was proposed... as required equipment type stuff.

Would that then be considered "Fine Time"?:D

Are you kidding? Specs can't comment on your zone? :rolleyes:



Do you offer refunds?

Sweet! Total score here.

I was not aware I could remove spectators who comment on my strike zone.

Thats awesome cuz that stuff is so old.

even if you called your zone by the book you'd get yelled at:eek:

Especially if.... ever actually call a strike at the top of the zone without someone commenting / yelling?:rolleyes:

It's OK, now I know I can remove them. Just another tool in my arsenal.

I remove anyone from the backstop who is doing anything but cheering in a positive manor. Coaching, interference(verbal), etc.

As for "strike zone" comments, and such from spec I go directly to the offenders coach. Our local assoc. has very specific rules on this type of conduct.

Basically, coaches are responsible for their fans. If coach will not attempt to control fan/parent, the coach is tossed and must pay a fine and go before the board before he/she can coach again. If he/she attempts to control the fan/parent and is unsuccessful then we toss the fan to the parking lot and they have pay a fine and go before the board to explain why they should be at their child's games in the future.

What this does is put the coach in the first position to control the fans/parents, and we are the last resort. Every parent and coach signs off on these rules at the beginning of the season.

It has really cut down on the verbal abuse of the umpires and the distractions for the players.

Usually if I am at the field I am coaching, but sometimes I get to be a spectator and will watch from behind the backstop from time to time. Funny, the balls and strikes look different from there than they do from the 1B coach's box!

I really don't care who is saying what from outside the fence unless they are a member of the team.

Don't know why any umpire would actually worry about what a spectator has to say.

Yeah, apparently the 1B coach's box has a "better angle." Sometimes, so does the outfield. That one really gets me. :rolleyes:

That's when you asked them what your strike zone looked like from the parking lot :D

Do you mean the umpire's association or the local softball association (aka league)?

I can understand a local league putting in fairly strict parent-control rules if they have had a problem in the past, but I can't understand an umpire assoc. doing this on their own.

Even with the local league rules, it has to be a PITA for the umpires to have to deal with.

Without such local rules, unless fans are actually disrupting the GAME, they should be ignored by the umpire.

Agree. That chain link is sound-proof as far as I'm concerned. A GLM once called me a jackass. I didn't respond for three reasons:

1 -- I didn't want to give her the satisfaction.
2 -- It was a judgment call on her part.
3 -- She was probably right.

But you at least looked, right? :cool:

:rolleyes:

I'm sure the coaches love that. Most have trouble controlling their players, let alone loudmouth spectators. A ridiculous rule. I blame coaches for many failings, but the antics of fans are not one of them (unless they are willfully inciting them).



Fixed that for you.

Hell, if I called it by the WCWS "by the book zone".. ie low, no high zone stuff, and 4 inches outside... I'd probably get yelled at. This is new take on spectator control is awesome!

Where I umpire, its 9-12yo city rec ball, our policy is the coach is supposed to control their fans. If there is unsportsmanlike conduct (like yelling swing) coming from the stands than the coach gets a bench warning. If it happens again the coach gets the boot. Since the policy has been implemented I have not had ONE problem from the stands. Nobody wants to be the one who gets their coach kicked out.

yeah I gues ... to much work for me

Dakota,
You are correct, it is the league and not our umpire assoc. Sorry for the confusion.

Lman
:rolleyes: = your opinion

"Second comment"
Again your opinion, but coaches and parents all sign off on it before hand. Just like anything else, you wanna play with their ball, it's their rules...

"Fixed"
First, it didn't need to be fixed, second, we have over 160 teams,
20+ complexes spread out over 5 counties. Each complex has a commissioner, but they are not at every game.

For the record, since implemented I have only had to warn 3 coaches, and they were all for coaching a batter or pitcher from the backstop and they were distracting the players more than they were helping.

Thanks for your comments

yelling 'swing' is unsportsmanlike conduct ???

really? :confused:

I had a similar situation at a tournament once.

Some dad parked his chair directly behind me and started in on the strike zone from the first pitch. After about an inning and a half, I walked back to the backstop and said:

"You know, my a$$ is 44 inches wide and the plate is only 17; how can you even see the strike zone from there?"

Didn't hear much more from that guy.

But its jst some dad ... who cares... if he is inciting the other fans or the girls get the director and have him removed....simple as that who cares what he says about your strike zone.. if he says nice things are you going to turn around and thank him?

Yeah. By the very same organizations/people who think that "Rollin' rollin' rollin', the pitcher's goin' bowlin', so get those worms some helmets!" is USC. :rolleyes:

I liked the way you handled it. Nice! :cool:

Not from the spectators. A player or coach, yep

so if some 7-8 yr olds are doing the old "hey batter-batter, hey batter-batter --- swing" ... you make 'em stop? really?

To start, I don't believe games with 7-8 yr olds should need umpires, but if umpires are assigned to officiate the game, then yeah, absolutely.

Sorry, but with all the nightmarish chanting, horrible songs, bs, foot stomping, fence shaking, and yelling going on.. I am not stopping "hey batta batta swing".

Not gonna do it. Thats absurd.

our local ASA league uses 1 ump for 7-8 .... and i'm not stopping "hey batta batta swing" either and I have never come across an umpire that did

really? you'd make 'em shut up? :confused:

As previously stated, if they want an umpire for the purpose of officiating the game properly, yes.

The cheers, chants and all the rest of the gibberish that comes from the dugout are words of support for THEIR OWN TEAM. Screaming at the batter or opponent is, IMJ, unsportsmanlike conduct and should be stopped. And yes, I will also stop chants directed at an opponent.

I'm not talking about ejecting anyone. Just telling the players to keep their comments to and about their own team. Coaches, by rule, already have this restriction placed upon them, so I don't see the problem with holding the players to a comparable standard.

Would you permit it to occur at the 16U or 18U level? Would you permit it is AA ball?

MIKE..I couldnt disgaree with you more....as long as it is not profane in nature...WHY would you care..chants against the other team have been going on forever. for someone with such a sensible attitude towards spectators..this one puzzles me

Darrell,

If you go back through the thread, you will realize that I am not referring to spectators, but players and coaches.

Negative chants directed at the opponent are not acceptable and you will have a coach in your face especially if the chant is targeting a specific player.

I read it...I DISAGREE........unless the chant is vulgar,racial, or obscene...who cares.....? When did this start? and how (speaking ASA) do you support it? There are SO many J.O. chants that involve a player or the other team.....why would you WANT to police that...theres enough going on ON the field to worry about...

I am dealing with what happens between the fences. The dugout is between the fences.

You may remember a few years ago when the following paragraph was included in 10.9:

A. Players, coaches, managers or other team members will not make disparaging or insulting remarks to or about opposing players, official or spectators or commit other acts that could be considered unsportsmanlike.

I have no idea why it was removed from the rules and not exactly happy that it was. However, just because it was omitted from the umpire section when the book was "overhauled" doesn't make the cheers, chants, etc. any less unsportsmanlike.

Actually, it's a rare occasion that I see this happen, but if it does. Would you permit a runner to go behind a SS and scream "I got it" to see the SS move away and let the ball drop?

So to continue this wondrous thread re: spectators.

2-2 game. 2-2 count. Pitch comes in six inches inside...where the line would be if we had a batter's box. I call a ball.

3-2 count. Same pitch, same location, Ball 4. Bases loaded.

Next batter, first pitch right down the middle. Batter lines it off the pitcher's stomach. Pitcher goes down in a heap. I kill it, give all runners one base. Pitcher is eventually ok.

Mother comes down behind the backstop.

"If you'd call that F*ing pitch on the inside corner my daughter wouldn't get hurt."

I didn't know whether to direct her to the parking lot for ignorance -- no one's gonna line an inside pitch sharply and directly back to the pitcher -- or for the f bomb, but I ran her just as swiftly as I would a coach. TD escorts her away.

Of course coach comes to me between innings. "Yeah, we've had problems with her for two years, but her daughter's a helluva pitcher..."

Now youre talking about something totally different. An active attempt by a player to mess up an individual play is MUCH different than a team chanting a chant about a new pitcher from a dugout..... One is an issue... one isnt....

Well, Darrell, we are just going to have to disagree on this one. AFAIC, the players should not be addressing the opponent in any negative manner or in an effort to distract.

AFA the "swing", ever hear of verbal obstruction? Yeah, it is a tough call, but it is one that can be made. Ever have a runner hesitate or stop when the catcher screams "foul" while you are standing on the line pointing fair?

IMJ, same thing.

Lost It
 

I was BU. R1 on 3rd. Passed ball we have a close play at the plate. My partner comes up with an "OUT". The fans are pretty close to the backstop. They all start shouting at my partner-he loses it and starts yelling at them about the play. :eek:
It was bizarre. It was pretty hot around here this weekend so I'll cut him a break,that and he is a really good umpire who had a not so good moment.

Just thought I would mention it in honor of this thread....

You know, like player, umpires occasionally need to "clear" the dirt from the bottom of their shoes. It's amazing how well-suited the backstop is for such a task. :D

Apparently, it does. If the rule isn't there, how can you enforce it?

"In my judgment"