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-   -   USSSA - Runner hit by batted ball (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/45292-usssa-runner-hit-batted-ball.html)

pompetti Mon Jun 09, 2008 01:34pm

USSSA - Runner hit by batted ball
 
R1 on 2B. R2 on 1B. B1 hits the ball up the middle, past the pitcher who never touches it, and the ball hits R1 while R1 is standing on 2B. SS and second baseman are playing deep to setup up a double play, well behind 2B.
R1 didn't interfere with ball.

What's the correct call?

I'm reading the rule book and there seems to be a conflict,

Rule 8 Sec. 10. BASE RUNNERS MUST RETURN TO THEIR BASES:

E. When an Umpire or Base Runner is struck by a Fair batted ball, before it
touches a Fielder, or passes any Fielder other than the Pitcher.
EFFECT Sec 10. A-F.
1. The ball is immediately dead.
2. Base Runners may be forced to advance, if the Batter is credited with a hit as per “E” above thus awarded First Base, thereby forcing other Runners to advance.
3. Base Runners need not touch intervening bases, when required to return.
4. Base Runners must be allowed sufficient time to return, when required.

But Rule 9 Sec. 2. THE BALL IS LIVE AND IN PLAY:
K. When a fair-batted ball strikes an Umpire or Base Runner after touching a
Fielder, or after passing any Fielder including the Pitcher/Infielder.

No one touched it and it passed by the pitcher, 8-10-E says dead ball, 9-2-K says live ball.

DaveASA/FED Mon Jun 09, 2008 03:03pm

Well as my name implies I call FED and ASA but if you look closely at your post the difference is that in 8.10.E it has not been touched prior to hitting the runner, in 9.2.K it has touched a fielder.

Touching a fielder makes this a different situation, it now becomes a deflected ball, might not change course much or hardly at all but #1 a fielder had the first chance at fielding the ball and missed it #2 they could have changed the direction of the ball causing it to hit the runner. So the rules (at least FED and ASA) make the contact with a deflected ball have to be intentional to get INT. There are other differences between a deflected ball and a non deflected ball but the main question in your OP is answered by the my statement above I think!

pompetti Mon Jun 09, 2008 03:10pm

9.2.K has an OR in there. There is after touching or after passing.

What would the call be in ASA? Untouched batted ball hits R1 standing on 2B.

whiskers_ump Mon Jun 09, 2008 03:33pm

A dumb R1.

SC Ump Mon Jun 09, 2008 04:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by pompetti
R1 on 2B. R1 on 1B.

Which part of was on 2B and which was on 1B? :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by pompetti
But Rule 9 Sec. 2. THE BALL IS LIVE AND IN PLAY:
K. When a fair-batted ball strikes an Umpire or Base Runner after touching a
Fielder, or after passing any Fielder including the Pitcher/Infielder.

I've never done U-Trip. Shouldn't it be passing any infielder excluding the pitcher?

pompetti Mon Jun 09, 2008 04:25pm

Whoops let me fix that. R1 on 2B, R2 on 1B.

And that's what my question is, the first rule excludes the pitcher, the second rule includes the pitcher. It's a cut and paste right from the online rule book. My printed copy says the same thing.

IRISHMAFIA Mon Jun 09, 2008 05:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by pompetti
What would the call be in ASA? Untouched batted ball hits R1 standing on 2B.

Anytime a fair, untouched batted ball hit a runner in contact with the base, the runner is NOT out unless s/he acted in a manner to interfere with the ball/play.

The status of the ball depends on the location of the nearest fielder. If that fielder was playing in front of the runner, the ball is live. If that fielder was playing behind the runner, it is a dead ball, the BR is awarded 1B and any runner forced to advance due the award is advanced. All other runners return.

wadeintothem Mon Jun 09, 2008 07:59pm

You have have failed to present enough information to adequately answer this utrip scenario.

I need to know:

1. What was the score/inning situation and who was affected by a potential irritating call?
2. Which of the coaches was more excitable? Was one easy going and you could step on him without issue while the other an powder keg?
3. Was there an accessible and detectable path of least resistance?

You must first take all these things into account... THEN go to the rule book. Where there is conflict, follow the chosen path of least resistance.

If the rule is vague, kinda make stuff up a little to sooth it over.


Hope this helps.

Dholloway1962 Mon Jun 09, 2008 08:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by pompetti
R1 on 2B. R2 on 1B. B1 hits the ball up the middle, past the pitcher who never touches it, and the ball hits R1 while R1 is standing on 2B. SS and second baseman are playing deep to setup up a double play, well behind 2B.
R1 didn't interfere with ball.

What's the correct call?

I'm reading the rule book and there seems to be a conflict,

Rule 8 Sec. 10. BASE RUNNERS MUST RETURN TO THEIR BASES:

E. When an Umpire or Base Runner is struck by a Fair batted ball, before it
touches a Fielder, or passes any Fielder other than the Pitcher.
EFFECT Sec 10. A-F.
1. The ball is immediately dead.
2. Base Runners may be forced to advance, if the Batter is credited with a hit as per E above thus awarded First Base, thereby forcing other Runners to advance.
3. Base Runners need not touch intervening bases, when required to return.
4. Base Runners must be allowed sufficient time to return, when required.

But Rule 9 Sec. 2. THE BALL IS LIVE AND IN PLAY:
K. When a fair-batted ball strikes an Umpire or Base Runner after touching a
Fielder, or after passing any Fielder including the Pitcher/Infielder.

No one touched it and it passed by the pitcher, 8-10-E says dead ball, 9-2-K says live ball.

USSSA Rule 8-18-N
A Runner is out when:

A fair-batted ball contacts him before it touches or passes an infielder, or after it passes any infielder, except the pitcher, and the Umpire judges that another infielder has a play.
EXCEPTION: If a runner is touching a base when hit by a batted fair ball, the runner is not out unless he intentionally interferes with the ball or an infielder making a play.

The ball is dead and the batter is awarded first base. All base runners return to the base occupied at the time of the infraction, unless forced.


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