Too close? Too far? Just right?
 

Anyone think this umpire is too close/too far/just right to the play?

I think the umpire iss in fine position to sell the call, but if it was me, I'd prefer to view the play as it occurred approx. 2 steps directly behind him.

You don't need to be that close to view a force out (if the play was a force out).
Was it?
Or was it a steal attempt?

Draw a line from the umpire's cap to the defensive player's glove, then draw a line to the bag.

That's a big angle. It seems a bit too close, but we can't tell where the umpire was when s/he SAW the play. We just see where it was called. :)

I agree with you there. I'd be a couple of small steps back.

It was most likely a force out play, as there appears to have been no tag.

Don't forget - that's a "sell safe" call she is making. She actually called the play from where her back foot was when it was completely down. That's a real good distance AND angle.

No, she is okay for making the call assuming she was at least 6' away when seeing the play. However, I prefer to be 8-10 feet away from a play when a play develops. Maybe a little closer once I can determine where the ball will be.

I know, that sounds strange, but what I want to avoid is getting so close that if the throw is off, I don't want to have to move my head/eyes to the point I lose part of the frame especially if it is a force play.

Maybe I'm dreaming this, but it seems that every "safe" call I've seen this past weekend involved a step toward the play.

Looks like a good calling position and angle to me as well, for the reasons that have already been stated.

Loks like the proper distance and angle for a tag play to me. What makes you think it was anything else and why do you think there was anything wrong?

What makes you think this is a tag play? Looks to me like a force play. Defensive player's foot close to being on top of the bag, glove of defensive player just held out with no attempt to tag the runner and defensive player looking toward the umpire hoping to get an out call. If it was a tag play she would be looking at the runner. JMHO Dave

Fielders feet were originally stradling the bag to prevent obstruction and she is now stepping backward. If this were a force, she would have had one foot at the front edge of the bag and would have stepped towards the throw after it arrived. Also, I was at the game and remember the play!!!

If you have to move your head down to see the bag or up to see the ball.. you are too close.

I would think this umpire is too close.

then you dont own a manual.... 6-8 ft tag play depth

That doesn't make it right, just what someone has gotten in the manual.

He is correct, if the umpire should not lose sight of base to watch the defender catch the ball.

ok maybe its just me... but looking at the distance from the base (play) and the height of the umpire (and taking into account the "step" to sell the call)... she's only about 4.5 to 5 feet away..... too close (or maybe the third baseman is 7 feet tall)

First, I think this umpire is closer than that.

Second, never snag one sentence out of a manual, grasping it, then run around with this one sentence as if you were monty python clacking two coconuts together pretending to be on a horse in search of the holy grail.

You must have the whole puzzle, including distance and angle to make a call. If you cant see the whole play, you are missing a puzzle piece. Since this was apparently tag play, and pretty obvious... luckily for the umpire was an easy no brainer call.

Speaking of having the "whole puzzle," I agree that at this point the umpire is probably closer than 6-8 feet in this pic. However, you can also tell it is a sell safe call, which makes me think she has taken a large step forward, which would mean that at the time she actually made the call she was at the perfect depth.

Maybe... I dont remember this play. It doesnt look to me to warrant some huge sell safe, but you very well could be right.

I see this as a tag play. By time this pic was snapped, the glove has come up; the player's legs have buckled and she has come to a stop; both heads have turned towards the umpire - who is only a couple steps away selling the call.

What nobody knows is where the umpire was at the time of the tag. That is the critical time (and spacing) - not at the end of the play! Depending on the number of steps, could very easily been 7' - 10' away.

If it is a tag play, then the critical view of the play is very small - 12" - 20" high. Don't need to be very far back to have the entire view without moving the head.

WMB

she had the angle you want to be on the action edge of the bag and 6 to 8 away to get the "4th demension" so that you can also see overtop of the play thats what the evaluators want and thats what the manual says and thats the best way I have been able to see the plays in my NCAA games this year as well as my other schedules. And just because you dont have the grail and I've already got one doesnt meant I should let you see it.

I've heard this before and am not totally sold on the "4th dimension" philosophy.

Well let me say this: I have never been hindered by it nor has it always helped but when it has helped i dont know if I could have made the calls without it.

I am right there with you on that !!!:)

Could you enligthen some of us on the "4th dimension" philosophy?

thanks

I side with Scott and WMB.

The only thing that would be constant is the angle the umpire had when the tag was made. If the umpire is calling a WCWS she has been trained to move toward the play and make the call; thus her distance from the play at the time of the play would have been within the limits discussed here.

It's an NCAA term for getting a vertical look down at a tag play -- or the aftermath of a tag play when you're trying to find the ball. At 6'4", I guess I live in the 4th dimension.:cool:

Thats dead on and it really works for us guys not so fortunate to be 6'4":D

However, those of us who are tall (I'm 6'5") need binoculars to see that far down to the ground. :D

Yeah, but when it's dinner time or Miller Time for short folks like me, it takes less time to get seated and dig in.

well when I ask you how the clouds look up there dont get mad at me!!:eek:

She is very close for calling the play, but for selling the call, which she is doing in the picture, she is just right.

Well said. One additional point is that it looks like the fielder is trying to sell the out and is showing the umpire that she has the ball (something not typically done on a force play).

From what I see, all is good.