Great game mgt vs. "its the umps fault"
 

Long but fun. . .You have to like coaches who know what they are doing and put their players in the best position to win. . .VS. . . the coach who is not aware of the game situation and blames US when the games ends

sit: Rec leage 5th-6th graders. . .12 batters max/inn, 12th can walk but not by IBB. 2 hrs time limit with no pitch after 2:15 hrs. 4.5 innings for a complete game. Top of the 5th inning. .away team down by 3. I am behind the plate + BU.

Away coach asks how much time is left (I verbalize it to both coaches). . .I reply 15 minutes to 2 hrs, 30 to end of game. AWAY TEAM takes the lead by 3 and the away coach RUSHES his last three batters and calling off the time to each one, telling them to swing at everything. The 12th batter comes up and WALKS. . .end of inning. . .

HOME TEAM COACH comes running up to me that the last batter cant walk. . .I tell her to read the league rules and I went over this in Ground rules. . .she insists, wasting more time. . .call over my BU and both coaches for conference and I prove the home team coach wrong in the league rules. . .she objects stating she know that the last batter must KO or get a hit.. . .nowhere to be found in the rules.

Away team coach rushes his girls out to the field. . .no warmups and he is pushing his pitcher to rush. He keeps yelling time remaining after every pitch.

I look at my watch. . .If we dont finish in 6 minutes, the game reverts back to the last complete inning and we have an INCOMPLETE GAME.

Home team players are swinging away (not stepping out to slow the pitcher)with not a peep from the coach. . .3 outs in 6 pitches. Game over with 3 minutes left.

Home team coaches approach me and my partner complaining that I did not notify them about the time (which i did). . .that if they knew they would have changed pitchers (huh? did you want to delay the game?). . . that I rushed her girls to bat. . .all the excuses in the book blaming ME and my BU for THEIR MISMANGEMENT of the game.

It was obvoius she wanted to play out the 2:15 and simply mismanaged her 1/2 of the inning. But dont go blaming me.

I am stunned that there is any rec league that plays a two hour time limit.

5th-6th graders = 12U basically ... 2 hour (+) time limit? yikes ....

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE SHI*ING ME???? :eek: Who in the heck dreamed that up??? Why not an 1 hr 20 min or even 1 hr 30 min time limit with 6 runs max per half inning. Get all 7 innings in most of the time and a whole heck of a lot quicker and fun! Finish the inning if you have to, that way you don't have all that 2:15 revert to last full inning junk.

Don't even feel like addressing the coach stuff after reading those rules!

This is tangential and not related to the ridiculous claim that you "lost the game for them," but I think the general approach I have seen on this board would tend towards a response like, "that's the ruling, coach, you can file a protest if you want, but let's play ball" rather than to spend that much time on a "rules clinic." Did you deal with the situation as you did because it was younger players and a rec league, or are there other factors that go into the process of deciding how much time to take on an issue like this? Thanks.

Those are by far the worst rec league rules I've ever seen.

TOTALLY AGREE!!! I assign rec ball to one spot and I told them this : I will charge more than your baseball, I will give you better umpires than the last guy and We will not be on the field past 1 hr 45 min. .... I got all of those things... I charge 37 a game .... all the people are HS umpires or better and we have a 130 no new inning 145 drop dead time limit. So you should get ahold of your assignor and tell him to change those REDICULOUS rules. Finally to actually answer the original post: sounds like you did what you should have done. its always easier to blame us rather than themselves or the team.

Even that amazes me. Around here most rec league games are an :55 to 1:15. I know of none that exceed an 1:30 time limit.

Why would changing pitchers be a delay of the game? I realize this isn't what the op was about but I was just curious why this would be a delay of the game? Is it not within the rules to change pitchers...even with time about to expire?

He didn't say "delay OF game" he said "delay the game". By that I'm assuming he meant taking more time off the clock that was already running short.

First, thank you all for your words. . . .I also agree that 2:15 is way too long for any age. . .my issue is that 1/2 these kids cant throw a 35-40 ft strike. I normally get in 6 innings at this level, but THOSE teams can field an F1 that can actually PITCH. Most of my games have been teams who have 5-6 balls per strike. . .either swinging or called.

In a farm game - 3rd 4th graders . . I ACTUALLY HAD 1 FULL INNING IN WHERE THERE WAS 20 BATTERS WALKED CONSECUTIVELY!!! both teams went thru 3 pitchers in the inning!!!

We have begged to have the rules altered that if a pitcher walks 4 consecutive batters the Coach comes in to complete the inning. . .we have been turned down. Are there that many better kids the same age in different parts of the country? If so, sign me up because many of my games are painful.

This year our rec league had a schedule where the week night 10U game went before the 14U game.. I had a choice of working the 10U game or waiting til just the 14U game. I decided to do it, no big deal.

Honestly, it was a horrible experience. 30-40 min innings walk fests. We had a 5 run up rule.. so the goal of this particular sport was to walk 5 runs in.. then the next inning that team had to walk in 10 runs (5 to catch up, then 5 more ahead). This is not softball, I'm not sure what the game I was working was called, but I was not umpiring softball.

The coaches would teach them to take pitches.. so the one pitch every other batter that was a strike.. would get took!!!! I was absolutely miserable. Sometimes (ok rarely) some thing cute would happen, and I would try to focus on that for a slightest bit of enjoyment..to no avail, I look back on it as a bad experience. I never want to work 10U rec again.

Mine was 80 long counted pray for it to end minutes. You just count the time, because the game means nothing. Its not softball. youre putting in your time you owe.. like prison. 2 hrs 15 mins of that, like you are doing, and I would flip a lid.

Friend of mine assigns a little rec league. He has the "championship" game of 10 U and asks me to work it. So he assigns me and another blue to work it. I did the dish,I lost the coin toss....

Our experience was similar to Wade's, it was the 7th ring of umpiring hell. beyond the walk fest we actually had a controversy of the "local rules." If it wasn't so bizarre it would have been down right pathetic.

My friend dodged my calls for about 5 days. So I get ahold of him and he's like "Sorry I couldn't do those games anymore this year, it was making me crazy."

Been said before-just part of paying your dues.

What's the size of your zone in games like that? As big as the Great Outdoors, and they still can't get it in the neighborhood? :confused:

Our rec 10U rules:

1) "1:30 time limit, no new inning after 1:25" (I don't know why they say 1:30, because there's no drop dead, just no new inning after 1:25).
2) Pitcher may not pitch more than 3 innings per game, nor more than two consecutively.
3) 10 batters per inning limit.

4 teams, about 4 good or better pitchers in the league. So, at least one inning will almost always be a walk fest, normally scoring 8 runs.

Last night, I called one of the games. One team's best pitcher didn't show. The other decided not to pitch their best pitcher (probably the best in the league). I think they pitched four other girls. One threw 2 strikes in 6 batters and I think they surprised her as much as they did me. It took 1:25 minutes to play 3 innings.

All the more reason some leagues should not waste the time or money on an umpire for certain games.

Well, even for kids' games, I think it gives them a sense of "hey, this is for real" when a real umpire shows up and not some volunteer wearing jean shorts and a white t-shirt. If leagues want to pay for an umpire, then let them pay for one. However, if it's purely rec ball, don't expect the assignors to send their best umpires. They should require just one umpire instead of a two-ump crew.

There's one adult league here that exists purely for the fun of it. The teams even offered last year to forgo the playoffs so that they could all have a big cookout instead. Our assignor tried to convince them that if that's their goal (just to have fun), maybe they could do with only one umpire and save a bit of money. Unfortunately, the person running the league declined and insisted upon two umpires for every game.

Perhaps they do get a flutter of "for real-ness" in their tiny hearts when they see real umpires (honestly I doubt it, but perhaps). But would they really be missing anything if they didn't? Does a "for real" umpire actually add to the quality of their experience? Most of those games (and I've done my share) don't actually require anything more than the kid in the jean shorts and white t-shirt can give you.

I hear you, and 14 years ago, I was that kid in the shorts. And I'll also tell you that I sucked as an umpire back then.

No comments from the peanut gallery. ;)

If that is true, you really don't know what the peanut gallery is :rolleyes:

http://hollywood2020.blogs.com/./pho...zed/howdy2.jpg

I disagree for my area and here is why.

This puts money in the kitty to pay more umpires.

So, I can use kids/new umpires who may go on to bigger and better umpire things and have them working games that would not otherwise be available at all.

I have 3 umpires who will be working their first travel ball this memorial day and that will kick off their first foray into the "real" softball season. They are nervous! Ha :). Anyway, thurs I will meet with them all and go over some BU stuff to make sure they are ready.

Their training and proving came in this rec league though.

Well, that's your area. In my area, there are more games than umpires and that is at all levels. HS games have to be rescheduled at times due to lack of umpires. And it is not just softball, baseball is having the same problem.

Well, let's face it. It's a job that a lot of people don't want to do. You have umpires who let players and coaches walk all over them, making our jobs that much more difficult when we have to stand our ground. It's a thankless job where abuse is sadly considered "part of the game," especially when you do your job well. Consider wade's recent experience. He makes the right call, and he gets vilified by the ignorant media and clueless coaches who lack self-control.

How many times do you hear an announcer provide an incorrect "clarification" on a call? How many times do we watch coaches blow up on national TV with the crowd cheering them on in the background? How many more stories in the media will we hear about where a coach or parent attacks the ump? How many times have we all heard the excuses like, "well, we've been using this bat all season?"

The numbers of new, young umpires is dropping, and dropping fast. Hell, ASA even changed the 2-man BU mechanics to accommodate older umpires who can't move as quickly.

All we can do is stand our ground and continue to not allow ourselves to be doormats. And maybe raising the game fees might entice a few new blues.

Well, not really.

Yeah, we have the same problem at that level of officiating.

I was specifically addressing the local rec league problem here and the draw it has for bringing youth into umpiring.

So was I. There are so few umpires, the local association turns away league play.

The issue I see is that, at the same time:

a) People argue that its 'good' to put 'real' umpires at this kiddyball level so the kids feel important with 'real' umpires there, but;

b) Inconveniently, the 'real' umpires use 'real' rules and enforce them, which upsets the coaches/parents to no end because 'they are just kids' and 'dont take that _____ away from her,' ad nauseum

if they want 'play' umpires, let the parents do it. As yall say, there's more than enough 'real' games to do.

Same here!

there is that problem... I will go ahead and throw this out if anyone wants to respond.. I have 10 people that are at minimal hs quality umpires that will not come back to a rec association because of the way they were treated... meaning parents of a 10 team trying to fight the umpires calling them a-holes and everything else (ok maybe not EVERYthing) in the book as they leave. Is this happening any where else? My favorite line that i heard a UIC open a rec ball tournement meeting (UIC to Coaches) is this " Okay fellas, I have called the college scouts and they aren't going to be here this weekend so lets relax and have a good time." thats the attitude everyone is missing. this supposed "IT's for the girls!!!" comment that gets thrown around is the one that the parents let fly out of their head as they scream at the umpries

Seems that parents of newer players often pick up a phrase they heard at the ball park and mis-apply it later. On a lighter note, here are other head-scratchers I heard through the "sound-proof" chain link this spring.

From the defensive team's fans on a foul ball dribbler toward the backstop: "That's nothing but a long strike."

From the offensive team's side before a 3-2 pitch. "3 and 2. It's gotta be perfect"

From the defensive side after a three-run double. "That's OK. Nobody hurt."

Well, that's when those of us who do rec league games have to tighten our belts and handle the situation. If parents get unruly, have them removed. If they refuse to go peacefully, call the sheriffs. For rec leagues, institute a policy of "umpires are hands-off after a game" with certain penalties prescribed.

Sometimes, we do this to ourselves by not addressing this behavior.

I agree in virginia assault on a sports official carries a heavier penalty than assault in general.My reason for bringing this up is this: these parents holar and scream everything they can at the umpires and when they are removed they get even worse and shout that its "for the girls!" the irony that statement carries along with it is extrordinary and the parents themselves as well as these coaches should be ashamed of how they treat authority figures on the field and ashamed of how they model respecting authority to their kids. Depending what age the kids are they still may (psychologically speaking according to famed psyco analyist for child developement Piaget) model this behavior...which in turn perpetuates the problem.

Parents often turn into complete idiots anywhere near an athletic field.

A few years back, Men's D FP State Championship. A team was using a non-rostered player and it was known. The manager was told numerous times that if a team protests eligibility, his team will forfeit. The manager was adament that he was told by someone else on the tournament committee that it was okay. I'm UIC, TD was state commissioner.

Well, sure enough in the "IF" game of the championship, the opposition protested the eligibility of two players, one was the ineligible player. I called the umpires off the field and the TD and myself addressed the protest and the game was forfeited.

The TD and myself were threatened and called names most Navy SEALS would find offensive. As I was exiting the field behind the TD, a man with his son (around 7 years old) must have saw a little bit of a grin on my face and confronted me. He wanted to know if I thought the forfeit was funny. I told him I thought it was hillarious that a bunch of grown men were acting like juvenilles and sad that with his young son standing by him, he supported such a reaction. Reality light bulb went on!

But he wasn't done. He wanted to know how I thought they should act after being screwed over by ASA. Told us we should have warned them first. That's when I informed this poor b@stard that the manager WAS told numerous times what would happen including right before the game started.

Deer in the headlights stare. He just couldn't believe that considering the way the team reacted. Funny thing was that the ineligible player (Arena Football League player for Las Vegas) didn't say a word. He knew it and played anyway.

Yes, athletic fields just have a weird touch on adults in the area.

Unfortunately, in Pennsylvania, assaulting a sports official apears too often to carry a far lighter penalty than assauting somebody in general.

And NCASA said "Sometimes, we do this to ourselves by not addressing this behavior." Yup, agreed - nothing quite like sticking it up the *** of those who have "X" team in the next game.

In CA it is a separate misdemeanor crime that caries that same weight as any other similar crime. There are no additional penalties, even though CA has a law.

Wow, color me almost impressed.

It is just amazing how these people treat authority figures and how it translates to the kids. I bet that 7 year old kid in his/her next game will mouth off and be disrespectfull to an umpire bc his/her father did it so it must be ok

Big enough. . . I widen the strike zone inside and out about 1 to 1.5 ball width. . . .top to the armpits. . . .bottom just under knee. . .. but the problem is, nothing was even close. Although the coaches agree to widen the zone. . .when I call it, they are the first to complain. . .GO FIGURE