Tenn Vols vs USA HP Umpire
 

I'm not sure who this umpire was but he made his verbal call and signal at the same time standing. It looked sharp! It was a breath of fresh air to see a softball umpire actually look good and not the typical robotic thing crammed down our throat. His hammer was not text book NCAA or ASA. Man this guy looked good!

I know this year NCAA allowed umps to use various stances and have already seen a D1 guy doing the scissor stance. Now this guy.

Hopefully ASA follows NCAA's lead and opens up a little.

It is an atrocious mechanic, especially on TV, ..

Pitch..
silence (cant hear the umpire, all I can hear is friggin dugout chanting)
more silence
more silence (me yelling at tv: hey wtf was the call blue?)
stands up, hammer (oh it was a strike! about #$%'n time)

ASA's mechanic isn't *too* bad if your timing's right. In SP, a split second after that ball hits the ground or glove, I'm calling ball or strike. Less than a second later, I'm standing straight up, giving the signal with a decent amount of energy.

I did the same thing!!!! he called it like it was baseball(no offense to baseball but softball is different) He saw the pitch came up singnal and call at the same time. Rediculous!!!! ps he looked like crap behind the plate... uniform ZONE, and everything else.

I dont think I was clear homey. I like HIS style.. I think the style where you wait 2.5 mins after the pitch to bring up the hammer is horrible especially on TV.

Tell me again why you are involved with ASA since you despise just about everything they do with which you don't agree?

I thought this umpire wasn't bad. Thought some of his calls were rushed and even the players seemed to give an occasional smirk. He wasn't very consistent on his "ball" calls. A couple sounded as if he was guessing. I doubt he was, but perception is reality, especially on TV ;)

I liked his left-handed punch on a 3rd strike.

BTW, if you are watching it on TV, who the hell cares how quick you get the call? The people who need to know the call have it.

I dont know, why are you in America since you cant stand so many of the things going on?

Obviously, like ASA, its the best gig in town. Always room for ASA to improve though. We just gotta wait for the old guard to move on I suppose .. or in lieu of that, the slightest possibility that they bend a little.

NCAA is blazing a trail. NFHS too.. time for the old guard @ ASA to wake up. It takes people talking to get that done

I think your impression of ASA mechanics is the same as that which you demonstrate concerning slow pitch. Little knowledge, plenty of ignorance. I don't think that is necessarily true, but certainly the way you present yourself, IMO.

I've never been to or operated an ASA school where the umpires were not told that they were expected to develop their own style off the basics.

What is the problem with an association wanting their umpires to be relatively uniform in their mechanics? If the NCAA or NFHS had to train as many umpires as ASA does from scratch, it might be a completely different story.

I don't think you give the ASA staff enough credit.

NCAA's "trailblazing" is very similar to that of ASA. They are trying their best to codify and then make uniform the mechanics of all of their umpires. You just happened to see an umpire who recieved a regional assignment in spite of this.

Go to an ASA National. You will see umpires who do not use "book" mechanics.

Personally, I like the look of uniform mechanics. You always know what to look for and what to expect from one umpire to the next. Communication between umpires, as well as coaches and players, is so much easier when you know what to expect. Also, that kind of solidarity helps to give a crewness to the umpiring staff. I think the ones who gripe about the uniform mechanics are the ones who are resistant to change or are too lazy to change. I have noticed that most of them seem to be transfers from the baseball world. :D

I only got to see portions of the first two innings but was surprised to see the PU's mechanics. My first reaction was that he was a baseball umpire. But I got to thinking, why would a high profile televised exhibition game not be able to find and use a softball ump? So presumably he was a softball ump who seems to have adopted baseball mechanics. Or perhaps he is also a baseball ump who does softball games. Either way, his mechanics were a bit of a surprise.

I guess I was enjoying the game and players too much to pick on the umpire or to think that TV is the essence like the NFL. :rolleyes:

You watched that entire game and didnt notice the PU's great mechanics?

:confused: It was only THIS year NCAA allowed various stances from the PU in the Umpire Manual.

Actually, the only thing I talk about is Beer League SP... of which, what I say is exactly how it is here. I'm sure in DE its much different. :rolleyes:

Your straw man means nothing. They are most certainly not talking about allowing "un-uniform" mechanics. What are you trying to pull?

Very similar when you contend allowing every different kind of black shoe, no matter how absurd the shoe is, is "uniform" but allowing NB450's is not "uniform".

In some ways, .. I agree.

Training SHOULD be uniform. Of course it should be. It even is uniform at Professional Umpire School.....

Evaluation should be based on a performance standard.. not particular robotic repetition of trainee level mechanics.

Thats simply my opinion. You should not be so afraid that others express opinion in opposition to present ASA policy such that you start flailing, grasping, sniveling, and calling names.

Stating facts of life. We teach the umpires the starting point and they take it from there.

Unifom in color, or "shade" for those who believe white and black are not colors. The book states "Black shoes and belt". White, silver or any other color are not black. Cannot be much simpler than that.

You are correct and that is exactly how I have seen, received and completed them.

You would be surprised how often I do not agree with ASA. But just because I see something different doesn't mean I just jump on the band wagon. I'm willing to try anything. I have experimented with alternative mechanics in some tournaments and I've taken heat for that, also.

However, whether you like it or not, ASA has done a helluva job training umpires by the masses including a fair amount if not most of those now working NCAA ball. When dealing with that many people, there is only so much you can do which is why we keep to the basics.

Some of those umpires stick with the basics and I don't see a problem with that even though you believe them to be robotic and part of the "old guard" troops.

I don't believe NCAA Collegiate Softball equates ....10 and under...mens slow pitch...seniors softball...double bases...masters...co-ed softball...with their "starting points" or their "basics."

Maybe not but why not want to work the game where the level of play is consistantly the highest(okay maybe not slowpitch). In all actuality that is NCAA. The things like shoes belt etc are all things that should look as unifor as possible. I can tell you that every pair of shoes I have bought for softball umpiring have etheir been all black or I blacked them out in whatever way I could find. For example those nice New balance with the great white N on the side of those new balances comes right off with a little rubbing alcohol and a qtip then you can polish over it and BAM! all black shoes. The bottom line is... you should always dress for the job you want. (p.s. same thing goes for mechanics!!!)

Well, to start, the NCAA is still in the process of getting their feet wet with NCAA softball umpires and are still somewhat reliant upon local associations to provide registration and majority of training. Yes, I know all NCAA sports are pretty much like that. Comparatively, the NCAA softball umpire system is still in the adolescent stages. The organization at the top has been getting better each year, but it wasn't that long ago that the "NCAA Softball Umpire" did not exist.

Just where to you think the umpires working college ball started? Do you think they woke up one morning and said, "Damn, I think today is the day I become a NCAA softball umpire!"

A softball umpire works softball games. Just because someone doesn't work a particular level doesn't make them any less an umpire. There are many an umpire career stymied by job, family and real life.

Anyone who believes they are above working any level of play is not someone I would want on the field. I am privileged to know an umpire who has works NCAA, NPF, HS, any level of JO, any level of men's or women's FP or SP and not only is that all in the same season, quite often a mixture of these in the same week. And works every game with the same enthusiasm.

This is an ISF certified and USA/ASA Elite umpire who has been selected for multiple 18U Gold, Women's FP, all levels JO Championships, multiple NCAA Regionals and Championships and just worked the plate of one of the Bound-4-Beijing games.

To me, THAT is the epitome of a true softball umpire and someone I want to see on the field not matter what game is being played.

That is true and I know I did not mean to come off as NCAA being the END ALL to be all of softball officiating. I know a few ISF umpires and I know Umpires who have worked literally every level of Mens fast at the national level and all of them would say the same thing you dress and perform for the job you want. Now as for mechanics you do have to work the mechanics set of whatever you are working that day wether its PONY,ASA, NFHS, or whatever but working them to the best of your ability and working them correctly (even with communication and diviation) is an asset to whoever as an umpire. This is the same with dress. Attire should be uniform, it can create an unspoken sense of crewness or even a sense of knowing what your doing. I know that I have seen a baseball player (i know I know its the softball forum but just hear me out) check out the umpires shoes and uniform and report to the coach just so the coach has an edge.... if the umpires shoes arent shined he/she isnt prepared a shirt to small:this umpire isnt ready to work this game Dirty pants: This umpire doesnt care.
we cant sacrifice looking good in uniform so how can we sacrifice a sense of uniformity amoung our mechanics.

Certain mechanics do need to be uniform and certain mechanics do not. Certain mechanics can be "personality" Others can be preference which allow the umpire to perform at his best because of genetics, god or McDonalds. You may have a preference because it looks good. I personnally think the umpire at this Tenn game was the BEST looking umpire mechanics wise I've seen working NCAA ball. He beat em all. It was refreshing to see good mechanics behind the plate of a softball game.

The misnomer sold to the softball masses is that if a PU used different stances than the allocated stance or a different strike 1&2 call... chaos would reign and and no one would know what is going on.

"Oh goodness," the softball umpire cries "how could I ever work with a partner from anywhere if he used a different stance!" Softball umpires, even in this thread, contend EVERYTHING must be uniform or they may not know what is going on. They need that uniformity to be able to work with anyone!

Are you kidding me?

I'm certainly not advocating people running around doing a double fist pump or inventing their own dead ball calls or what not.. but people would be just fine if certain areas were relaxed.

If an umpire, say, worked a Gerry Davis stance or used the dreaded "point" strike, and you as BU "lost" it and couldnt tell what is going on.. well then thats sad.

If I were president, we would have a chicken in every pot, a car in every garage..

Umpires could use any reasonable strike call, and would be evaluated on performance, not whether they did the robotics perfectly.

Umpires could use any reasonable stance and would be evaluated on performance, not whether they the specified stance.

Umpires, base or plate, could use any reasonable out call, and would be evaluated on performance, not whether they did the robotics perfectly.

Irishmike's contention that umpires can do so now is absurd. At least not in any place I've ever worked... maybe in Delaware they can.

That guy behind the plate had horrible timing. As a softball umpire we are supposed to see the pitch and call it in the set posistion "pop" up and give it the hammer (how ever you do the hammer is up to you as long as people can see it and know what it is.) That guy also looked like a bum. His shirt was looking like he got it four sizes too big and he looked like he was ready to walk down into downtown atlanta or some other urban area.... not ready to umpire a softball game. The height of his zone was OK at best and we cant really tell the width because of the camera being offset in Centerfield. The bottom line is there are times to let your personality out in softball... like the sell out and the sell safe ... sure there are guides in the manual on how to do one but they are just GUIDES an overhand is an overhand as long as its clear and everyone knows what you have. I said nothing about his stance. He looked heal toe and he wasnt to hunched over... so that seems ok to me as long as he was close enough to the catcher and remained in the slot (which I think he pretty much did). What about the guy in the world series whose out looked like a windshield wiper..... thats his personality.... he worked the WCWS and World cup if im not mistaken.

the guy was selected for the game so he is obviously a good, respected official .....

some of he points raised are valid, no doubt - but lighten up a bit .... just cause he's a little "different"

Haha ok maybe I was a little uptight about it. But just as a reminder.. you dont always have to be good to be selected to the games that are the dreams of certain officials.. politics plays a HUGE role in that selection.

I know that he is different and I respect personality. However we have protocol as softball umpires and that umpire was not following the protocol. I dont know of any evaluator that would approve of the timing he was using from a softball stand point.

politics - ain't that the truth!

unfortunately...

Long winded, self-proclaimed know-it-all's drive me nuts.

... I'm just sayin'...

Well, to each their own. I don't think it was bad, but certainly not the best, IMO.

WTF are you talking about? Are you making up your own story so you can argue against it?

I wouldn't use a point, nor lose it if someone else did. But I would have a problem with it because the signals are supposed to be for those remote from the action and be some place where all can see. You cannot see a "point" from everywhere. Do you give a count in front of your chest or above your shoulders where it can be seen by all?

I've worked nationals with an umpire would stand behind the opposing batter's box and bend over, almost backwards (SP), to see the pitch so he would not interfere with the catchers ability to retreive the ball and have a clean shot at throwing out a runner. Nothing was ever said to him about his mechanic. I worked another where the umpire's call for the first strike of the game was, "WHOOPS, THERE IT IS!" Nothing said to umpire. I have an umpire with nationals under his belt who goes to the hammer, then extends his arm straight up. Never been gigged for it by myself or any of his UICs at NC. I could go on for hours about this, but that would just be a waste of time and space.

All I ask of an umpire is that the strike/out signal be in the form of a hammer high enough for the people to see it. I prefer it to be not directly in front of the umpire, but I'm not going to "lose" it if it is.

I don't know what you are seeing around ASA, but it certainly isn't what I have over the past 10 years of nationals and world cups I've worked.

I didn't say "entire". As it was, a few 1/2 innings. But observed or not was not my point, just that the PU was not the most important not the only one there. I'd much rather focus on Mendoza'a swing or Abbott's pitching than any umpire.

Really?

How weird is that? What the hell for?

:confused:

Just because I own a manual ... and know how to read.... and prepare yourself for this one ... READ THE MANUAL!!! does not mean I am a "know it all." You should try reading a manual someday ... maybe then you could be a "know it all." Maybe I am long winded.... but guess what I'm done now

See what I mean about citations? There was nothing which indicated that comment was directed toward you. Based on your previous statements, anyone should have known it was directed toward the OP.

I really don't know to whom SRW was referring, could have been me and that's okay. ;)

Then again, since you responded in such a manner, you must have believed it was you. Must be that guilty conscience thing. :eek: :D

hahah yeah well SRW and I got in another arguement about something sometime and there were comments about manuals thrown around. so I assumed ... but you knwo what they say about that:eek:

You should know by now that if I had referred to you, I wouldn't have said "self-proclaimed". ;)

ASSume...

When did we argue? I recall asking where something specifically was in the manual... but not arguing about it.

Hey, uh, SRW.. you didnt get all that brown off. There are still smudges, you know, around the edges and stuff.

Jeez.

Dang I knew I was forgetting about something... The other day I had my manual out and knew I was looking for something but I couldnt remember what.. Ill get to it today. BTW I think i mentioned this before, Ed Crane said that that dead ball (on the hit batter) mechanic is infact the Mechanic for that. That was in an evaluation from the spring games in florida.

Just curious, but is there a reason you keep quoting Ed Crane on this board?

Bc some one asked where that dead ball thing came from and I said that I have to look it up in the manual but he is the one that said it and if he did then that seems like it should be in the CCA manual. Thats why
I know its a name drop and thats not what its ment to be except in the sense that he contributes to the mechanics in the manual

Thanks. Just wondering.

There are worse who have quoted...or been quoted on here. :)

true that