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-   -   NSA procedure - is this correct? (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/44214-nsa-procedure-correct.html)

Andy Thu May 08, 2008 10:55am

NSA procedure - is this correct?
 
Check out this thread from Eteamz:

http://www.eteamz.com/fastpitch/boar...cfm?id=2056751

I believe we have some members of this board that call some NSA - can you confirm this information?

Dakota Thu May 08, 2008 11:15am

So, if some kid gets hurt, the batter is penalized by having her bat seized to be sent in for destructive testing. Nice. I can imagine the hue and cry if ASA tried something that silly.

Skahtboi Thu May 08, 2008 11:17am

This ranks up there as one of the more ridiculous safety overkills I believe I have ever seen.

FullCount Thu May 08, 2008 11:31am

What would happen if the player and her parents refused to surrender the bat? I suspect I would have refused. I know the "letter" in the link says check the NSA rules if that occurs, but I don't have their rule book nor the energy to check what it says. I do suspect that many would likely refuse and I'm not sure what they can do about it legally. Presumably eject the player, but who wants to continue play under those circumstances. Also, is there no room for umpire judgement that the injury was just an accident, unrelated to equipment?

Dholloway1962 Thu May 08, 2008 12:53pm

http://www.playnsa.com/pdfs/NSA_Rule_Book_2006.pdf

Illegal Bat rule is on page 13...to long to cut and paste into here.

MichaelVA2000 Thu May 08, 2008 02:11pm

From the heybucket forum:

Quote:

Originally Posted by umpinva
Quote:

Originally Posted by hotcorner
This is the first time I've ever heard of this. DD hits ball and hurts player on other team who then has to be taken out of game due to injury (Maybe even to the hospital). In umpires judgement he can decide to confiscate bat to be tested to see if bat has been altered in any way. DD eventually gets bat back but maybe not for 14 days. My question to the tourney director was (1) does the bat in any way get damaged as a result of this testing? and (2) will we receive a replacement bat to use while our $260 bat is being tested? Their answer was "no" to both questions but I am kind of leary about what will happen to DD's bat during this testing period. Not to mention DD's confidence level when she can not swing the bat she is having such great success with.

If it was an NSA tournament it is a requirement. Below is a memo that was sent to NSA umpires back in 2006:

Subject: Injury reports

Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 10:40:02 -0400

Hey folks,

This is a friendly reminder to our umpires about injuries in NSA sanctioned >play. We have gotten a few this year and for the most part we have done a >pretty good job of doing what we are supposed to do concerning injuries. >But, some of us have either forgot the protocol or haven't been to a clinic >or convention when this was discussed. So in brief I'll go over the >procedure of what we are to do when we have an injury on the field >concerning the equipment.

1st - someone secure the bat and the ball and never lose sight of it, lock >them both in a room, car or somewhere secure.

2nd - Issue the owner of the bat and ball a receipt for the bat and ball

I know that this may sound a little non-feeling towards the injured player >but we have directors, fellow teammates, park directors, uic's or our >partner on the field to tend to the injured player while waiting on medical >personnel to arrive.

3rd - Ship the bat to me here at the NSA National Office @ 101 NSA Way, >Nicholasville, Ky 40356.

What will happen to the bat and ball then is this. I will compression >check the bat. If the bat compression is lower than what would be normal >break in level for that model we will either send the bat to NY university >for bpf testing or sent to the mfg if the bat looks to be tampered with.

We have one bat at a mfg now from an injury that looked altered to me when >it arrived and I immediately sent it off to the mfg to see what their >findings were.

If the player refuses to give the bat or ball up, then we refer to the >altered bat and ball rule in the Official NSA Rule Book in Rule 3; >Equipment.

Lastly, we HAVE TO HAVE a injury report on file. Even if the injury looks >minor, it could escalate to something more serious and we have to have the >report on file. This is to protect you as an umpire if the case goes to >court, and it gives NSA, and our insurance company firm ground to stand on; >that we have done everything in our power to protect our players well >being. If we cover all the bases, we are all protected; but it starts with >you the umpire, the uic, the director, the zone VP.

Make sure that this is sent to all of your uic's, umpires, directors, state >directors, parks, leagues, etc.


Eddie Ray Cantrell
NSA/BPA Executive VP & National Director of Umpires
playnsa.com


AtlUmpSteve Thu May 08, 2008 02:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by FullCount
What would happen if the player and her parents refused to surrender the bat? I suspect I would have refused. I know the "letter" in the link says check the NSA rules if that occurs, but I don't have their rule book nor the energy to check what it says. I do suspect that many would likely refuse and I'm not sure what they can do about it legally. Presumably eject the player, but who wants to continue play under those circumstances. Also, is there no room for umpire judgement that the injury was just an accident, unrelated to equipment?

As I read that book, refusal to allow the bat to be inspected initiates an automatic 5 year suspension from NSA.

IRISHMAFIA Thu May 08, 2008 02:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakota
Nice. I can imagine the hue and cry if ASA tried something that silly.

ASA does, but only if possibly altered. A player being injured is not cause to confiscate the bat.

Skahtboi Thu May 08, 2008 02:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve
As I read that book, refusal to allow the bat to be inspected initiates an automatic 5 year suspension from NSA.


That might be a good thing! :rolleyes:

bkbjones Sat May 10, 2008 12:43am

I think that is a GREAT rule!

Oh...did I mention I only do ASA, NCAA and NFHS for a REASON?! Keep it up, NSA. We need more crazy crap like this!

AtlUmpSteve Sat May 10, 2008 01:01am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkbjones
I think that is a GREAT rule!

Oh...did I mention I only do ASA, NCAA and NFHS for a REASON?! Keep it up, NSA. We need more crazy crap like this!


Yeah, no kidding.

Andy Mon May 12, 2008 10:59am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkbjones
I think that is a GREAT rule!

Oh...did I mention I only do ASA, NCAA and NFHS for a REASON?! Keep it up, NSA. We need more crazy crap like this!

John - you want to see some crazy crap, go check out this rule set:

ISA softball

Skahtboi Mon May 12, 2008 11:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy
John - you want to see some crazy crap, go check out this rule set:

ISA softball

Anything in particular we should be looking for?

Dakota Mon May 12, 2008 12:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skahtboi
Anything in particular we should be looking for?

The cartoon of the player is wearing prison garb? :eek:

Skahtboi Mon May 12, 2008 01:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakota
The cartoon of the player is wearing prison garb? :eek:

Nah! They are just trying to appeal to their primary audience. ;)

Actually, though, as I recall, that has something to do with a Base Bandit or something like that. Don't have too much familiarity with ISA, but I recall some association that had Base Bandit tourneys a while back.

Skahtboi Mon May 12, 2008 01:20pm

Excuse me. It was a Base Burglar. Here is the rule:

Section 5 - The Base Burglar.
A. Must be designated before the game to the umpire or official
scorekeeper.
B. Can only be used once per half inning.
C. Cannot be a position player or EP.
D. May be utilized as a regular substitute, however, that team will lose the
Base Burglar for the remainder of the game.
E. CO-Ed Play: Both a male and a female Base Burglar may be used once
per half inning. Males may be designated for males. Females may be
designated for males or females.

IRISHMAFIA Mon May 12, 2008 01:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skahtboi
Excuse me. It was a Base Burglar. Here is the rule:

Section 5 - The Base Burglar.
A. Must be designated before the game to the umpire or official
scorekeeper.
B. Can only be used once per half inning.
C. Cannot be a position player or EP.
D. May be utilized as a regular substitute, however, that team will lose the
Base Burglar for the remainder of the game.
E. CO-Ed Play: Both a male and a female Base Burglar may be used once
per half inning. Males may be designated for males. Females may be
designated for males or females.

I think I've seen his cousin, Ham. He works with some red-headed guy named Ronald. :cool:

GrumpUmp Mon May 12, 2008 01:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skahtboi
Nah! They are just trying to appeal to their primary audience. ;)

Actually, though, as I recall, that has something to do with a Base Bandit or something like that. Don't have too much familiarity with ISF, but I recall some association that had Base Bandit tourneys a while back.

ISA (not ISF) does use a Base Bandit or Base Burglar hence the cartoon character in prison garb. It is their version of a Courtesy Runner.

ISA - Rule 3 - Section 4 - THE BASE BANDIT/BASE BURGLAR is allowed to run once an inning. If the (BB) enters the game, the (BB) position is eliminated. If the (BB) is injured while on base, the batter/runner that the (BB) ran for must take their proper place on base.

The BB must also be listed on the starting lineup.

Andy Mon May 12, 2008 02:03pm

The base bandit is part of it....

This ruleset also allows a DH, DEFO (not FLEX), and EPs. I think it is possible for the lineup to list 15 players that are in the game in one way or another.

There is also a rule that if someone drops out of your lineup, it is an automatic out each time that position comes to bat. But wait...if the defense walks the player at bat (intentionally or unintentionally) to get to the automatic out spot, the spot is skipped, no out recorded and the next position comes up.

They also claim to be the first softball organization to allow stealing in slowpitch.

There was a post on eteamz about ISA rules that prompted me to look at the book online...to me, it looks like they just took stuff from other baseball and softball codes and mashed it together with some of their own stuff and published a rulebook. Way too much ambiguity and room for interpretation in the book for me.....

IRISHMAFIA Mon May 12, 2008 04:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy
They also claim to be the first softball organization to allow stealing in slowpitch.

They were the first to have it at all levels, but not sure if they had it when introduced at what used to be ASA's Super level only.


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