9 player lineup with DP/FLEX
 

I don't pay any attention to the details of baseball rules, beyond being a fan, that is. (I know, Mike... but I do like MLB, in spite of the overpaid spoiled AAs, the steriods, etc.) I said that to say this: I was reading a thread on the BB board, and apparently some BB codes allow a 9 player lineup where one player is indicates as both F1 and DH. The apparent advantage of this is if the starting pitcher is a good hitter, the coach can bring in a relief pitcher later in the game and the starting F1 becomes DH for the relief pitcher.

In softball with the DP/FLEX, if a coach wants to do something similar, he specifies his "starting" F1 as DP and his relief F1 as starting F1 and FLEX, and then in the defensive half of the 1st inning, he brings in his DP to play defense for FLEX (that is, to "start" at pitcher), dropping back to 9 players in the lineup. The disadvantage of this is that the relief pitcher has officially left the game, with one re-entry remaining, rather than being an unused sub.

Has there ever been any discussion about allowing a starting lineup to show DP/FLEX as a dual role for one player in a 9 player lineup? This would mean the coach has stated his intent to play with DP/FLEX, but he has yet to name the "other" player.

You must really want coaches confused. Some umpires, too, apparently. :p

Yes... knowledge is power! :D

The problem is, Sir Francis, that if the coach doesn't recognize the power, it's significance is greatly reduced. ;)

While I admire your thinking outside the box, the rule requires the name/number of the player for DP and the name/number of the FLEX to be recorded on the line up in the appropriate spots.

To do what you are saying would require one player to be listed in two different positions on the line-up card. (At least according to NCAA, NFHS, and ASA.)

No but I did have a coach once have a player they had no intention of playing (One of their JV players) listed and as soon as they handed me the lineup they said they wanted to drop back to nine with the option of adding the flex back later on a substitution. That way they did not burn a reentry on the girl they actually wanted there later in the game.

Can someone please explain to me why the DP/Flex is better than just allowing an EH?

Hijack alert...

Ample discussion on the general DP/FLEX rule can be found with a search. You can also check the handout section of Softball Umpires.

Dp/flex
 

Candrea does this. He would start Fernandez as the DP and list Harrigan as the FLEX/Pitcher. Fernandez would start pitching and if he had to bring her out she could still hit. He could sub Finch for Harrigan and have Finch hit with Fernandez remaining as the DP. Easiest way to keep it in focus is that any nine of the ten can play defense.

Uhhhh...not exactly.....

The Flex and the DP can NEVER both hit in the lineup...

If the Flex is not playing defense, she has left the game and the lineup is back to nine players.

With the FLEX still having one re-entry right.

Like Dakota mentioned there is ample material on the DP/Flex.

BUT the way I remember it is there are two basic functions of softball offense and defense. Most players do both, bat and play defense. Now the Flex/DP allows you to have two players perform the function of 1 (with some added advantages). So if we split that one player into two we have 1 that plays defense (Flex) and the other that plays offense (DP), again basics here more to come later.

So as long as the DP plays offense (bats), she has not left the game. And as long as the FLEX plays defense she has not left the game.

Now if the FLEX does play offense then she has to bat for her siamese sister the DP (tied together by FLEX/DP rule). And since the DP is not playing offense she has left the game (still has a re-entry, still can be subbed for like any other player) NOW the real power is that if the FLEX continues to play defense then she has not left the game, even if she stops playing offense later (bring DP in to run for her).

The added advantage is that the DP is a player in the game (an offensive specialist if you will) so she can play defense if the coach needs her to she can play for anyone but the flex and nobody has left the game....BUT since she is tied to the FLEX...who is the defensive specialist, if she plays defense for the FLEX, then the FLEX has left the game (since she is the defensive 1/2 of the flex / dp thing)

One place where it is powerful is if you have a big hitter, say a 1st base person....and lets say she has a lot....of....well power, but she can turn a triple into a single if you know what I mean....so anyway put her as the FLEX. And lets say you have a couple speedsters with great baserunning skills that can't hit or field very well, list the fastest as the DP. Then at the plate conference say you want the FLEX to bat for the DP, once she gets on base re-enter the DP to run for the FLEX, you go back to 10 and the FLEX has not left the game at all. Now next time up, have FLEX bat for DP again, starting DP can not re-enter, but once FLEX gets on base, you can substitute speedster #2 for starting DP and have her run for the FLEX, again FLEX has not left the game at all.

Again basics if FLEX plays defense and DP plays at least offense (could also be defense) nobody has left the game.

I am playing with the DP batting 4th/FLEX is my pitcher.

2nd inning, I put my DP into Right Field.

3rd inning, I place my original Right Fielder into Pitch.

As either my Flex or DP left the game?

The FLEX is out of the game. When the DP is playing defensively and the FLEX is not, the FLEX is considered to have left the game.

NFHS 3.3.6.e

e. The DP may play defense at any position. Should the DP play defense for a
player other than the FLEX, that player will continue to bat but not play
defense, and is not considered to have left the game. The DP may play
defense for the FLEX and the FLEX is considered to have left the game,
reducing the number of players from ten to nine.

Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

Sure, what's an EH besides a filler word in CA. An extra hitter? Batting 10 fielding 9? That's not exactly the idea of having a fielder who doesn't have to bat.
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OK. Good point. Then why not just use a DH, like in American League baseball?

BTW...not sure what you mean by "filler word in CA". Please elaborate.

I guess it was too much to expect any discussion about DP/FLEX to not turn into a general tutorial on the rule. The OP was focused on one issue: why not be able to have a starting lineup with one player listed in a dual role, with the other player to be entered later, like apparently SOME baseball codes do with DH?

Stu, if you want to debate the "goodness" of DP/FLEX, you could, you know, start a thread for that.

Not enough information. Two different languages. If you are talking DP/FLEX, say DP/FLEX. Just because someone entered the game to pitch doesn't mean that either has left the game. For as much as we know from your statement, the FLEX could now be playing 1B or catching!

I am talking DP/Flex

On my line-up card I show the DP batting 4th
The Flex in the 10th Slot playing the #1 Position (Pitcher)

In the 3rd inining I have my DP trot out to play the #9 position (Right Field), my original #9 player is on the bench.

In the 4th inning I have my original #9 position from the bench go to the #1 position (Pitcher). My Flex is now on the bench.

Has my Flex now left the game?

While I see what you are proposing, what I mentioned was with the rule written as is, (requiring a player/number in the DP slot on the line-up card, and a player/number in the FLEX slot) it wouldn't work. The rule would have to be reworded to allow one player to fulfill the dual role.

yes

It is as simple as this. The FLEX is the player designed to play defense. The DP is the player designed to play offense for the FLEX. If either are not doing the duty they were designed for, they are now out of the game with one re-entry just like with any starting player in NCAA and any player in ASA/NFHS.

Canadians have a tendency to put eh into sentences the way that American's put like where neither belongs.
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Ewita cam

OH! CA = Canada! I get it now. Being that I'm from California, I read CA as Cali.

Eh?

Thank you. That's a very helpful suggestion. Heaven forbid any threads veer slightly off topic around here.

:D

But he is asking about changing the rule.

You really want to start messing with a rule that less than half have learned so far and that is consistent and clear between books? :eek:

I seem to remember that you have some games soon. Does that mean your cabin fever will clear up in the foreseeable future? :p :D

Well. you'd think so. The HS season started this week, but so far, all of my games (3 so far) have been postponed due to weather (rain/snow mix, and field conditions resulting from this...) :(

Next week is the last week of the regular season in SC. Playoffs begin the week after.