USC--Do you have to see it?
 

ASA 14-U, visiting team batter returns to dugout after called strike 3, next batter comes up to plate. PU comes over to visitors dugout, calls the just-retired batter out and ejects her after being told by home team that she had flipped him off after the third strike call.

Just curious if an umpire is required to see USC in order to eject a player, or can he rely on the word of the opposing team/fans?

Can't call what you didn't see/hear firsthand.

My opinion: if you're calling a game that's starting to get a bit tense, keep your eyes and ears peeled. Don't "look for trouble," but nip it in the bud when you spot it. Work with and through the coaches when you can, but remember that coaches can't just be taken for their word.

As for the PU, maybe he did actually see the bird. Who knows?

The moral of the story for the batter is dont do that.

I am wondering how you call a "just retired" player out again. :eek:

Had it been a NCAA or Fed game I would like to have seen the written report on that ejection.:eek:

Matt, I would not trust the opposing team any further than I could throw them. If I did not see something and neither partner saw anything, it did not happen.

It would have been clearer had I said, "called her out of the dugout."

Thanks for the repiles, it seemed apparent that he did not see anything (if he had, he would have tossed her then and there instead of after she was already in the dugout and the next batter at the plate).

It seems possible another umpire saw it.. and thats why it didnt immediately happen. I and most umpires wouldnt believe a fan if they swore they were lying.

:D

Sad...but true.

"Thanks #8. Good for her that I didn't see that, isn't it?"

As I hijack the post...

Reminds me of one of my faves. A few years ago in an NFHS game, a batter turned to me after a backward K. "Are you f'ing kidding me?" (Didn't say f'ing...full f bomb)

coach is going from 3B coaching box and I intercept her.

"Coach, you have a sub for #5?"

"Why?"

I relate the transgression and tell her #5 is through. She shakes her had and puts in #8.

Next half inning, coach comes out shaking head again.

"I asked #5 if she cursed the umpire. She told me no. I asked her what she said, and she said "I asked him if he was f'ing kidding me." I informed her that was cussing, and she was surprised."

While we're telling stories, here's a related one from a 18-A summer tournament. I was watching during an off game. Called third strike. Batter yells, "Dude, you are so wrong!" Then she went and put on her catcher's gear. :cool:

Lame :rolleyes:

Fast pitch umpires do WAY to much "to keep everyone in the game".

This wasn't the tournament up here, was it?

Batter says to my partner "You're joking!" after ringing her up on strike three:

My partner responds "With an at bat like that, perhaps we are at Comedy Central. Go on backstage. You're done for now."

I chuckled for a good two innings.:)

No -- in the opposite corner of the country for this one.

I had one game that was in a VERY recreational coed league. Neither team could get an out if a fly ball stopped 3' above the ground and just hung there. I'm BU, and my partner's behind the plate. One out, infield fly situation, so we give each other the signal. Fortunately, the batter popped up to the pitcher, and we now have two outs.

I glanced around and saw that no one was looking at me except my partner, so I used a VERY subtle non-ASA "mechanic." Instead of wiping the "possible IFF sitch" clean, I tapped my arm, pretended to inject something, and cocked my head slightly in a "please kill me now" gesture.

PU had to hold up the pitch for a good 15 seconds before she regained her composure. ;)

I just talked to someone who was at the game who said the BU apparently did see the "flipoff." Home team and/or fans told the PU about it first and the BU confirmed that it happened. Raises a funny question, though, in light of the "If I didn't see it I can't call it" theory: Should the BU have been the one to do the ejection since he saw the USC and the PU did not?

BTW, I don't think the flipper is playing softball this season.

In ASA, any umpire has the authority to eject a participant. Can't imagine NFHS would be any different, so... Yes. BU should have done his/her job and ejected the flipper. Ignoring it doesn't do anyone any good.

I would have ejected her myself as BU and have in fact done so in a similar case (although it wasnt a flip off).

Gotta agree with this one. :) I sometimes wonder if it's cause our local big dogs are college umps and that has translated into our Associations culture.

Most college umps, especially big wigs, are ASA trained. The mantras of "keep everyone in the game" and "If you have more than 2 ejections per year, it might be you" and this other garbage I've heard at times make it so much harder on all the umpires in the long run. It is short term thinking. Ejections serve to train coaches. I don't put up with their garbage, and I'm glad to say my "big wigs" fully support my game management, and they are more than aware I will run someone when they earn it.

I've never seen a team lose a game because a coach got tossed. They are not necessary once the game starts. There will be an assistant coach ready willing and able to step in the box and do some signs. There is no reason "to keep them in the game" at the games expense.

Players get less slack than that.

The bottom of the food chain, assistant coaches, even less.

I wonder what people would say if I told them that I've had 10 ejections in one year. :eek:

Just kidding. All of them were justified (mostly collisions and throwing of bats).

I hope you guys don't get flipped off by 14-year-old girls too often!

What are you doing to make them run into each other and throw bats?:confused: ;)

I guess I should close my PCP stands next to the dugouts...

most of mine are coaches or male FP players (none though this year and only 1 warning.. but the season is young!)... and I got you probably doubled counting coaches and players. whats the deal with the bats?

Are you asking seriously? Or being facetious? :)

I've never ejected for that.. so I'm asking what would cause so many? What is a typical situation where you eject for that?

ASA's Rules Supplement #52 says that if a player throws his bat in anger, eject. It's very much USC, not to mention extremely dangerous. One guy threw his bat from the 1B foul line (halfway between HP and 1B) all the way to 3B. Another guy popped up and threw his bat to the fence on his dugout's side (1B side) of the field, nearly clipping one of his own teammates in the knees.

Oh I see... The beer guys again!

Yeah I dont care about that if they throw it in anger in their dug out. Hell I dont care if they beat their face against the wall. I've ejected for throwing a helmet by my feet though!

Thats me though. I'd be smiling to watch you do it though!!

I thought you were ejecting girls for tossing their bat after a hit.

Yep! Chug-a-lug! ;)

Makes you wanna go heidi ho!

Not necessarily. I tossed a Co-Rec player from Great Britain in a World Cup game for throwing a bat.

Don't know if you have ever been to the ISF Complex in Plant City, but the fields are those of a former MLB (spring training) facility. The backstops have to be nearly, if not more, 30' from baselines.

This player popped up and started down the 3B line, lifted the bat above his head. I quietly comment just so the batter and catcher can hear me, "don't do it". Next thing I know, there is a ringing from the bat hitting the fence in flight. "Number 14, you're done".

Best part was as the manager/1B coach was coming in, I tell him 14 needs a substitute and the response was, "Absolutely, you will have one right away, sir." Gotta love the English.

Hell, I'd a tossed a brit at the world cup for it too. :D

My motto for a coach or player throwing equipment in a un-sportsman like manor is: If they can catch it before it hits the ground, they can remain in the game.

Just got word today one of our umpires let a coach (new coach who is the only one I've warned this year so far) throw his hat about a call.

15 year umpiring veteran.. lets him stay in the game.

Amazing.

Truly amazing.