Interference or Nothing
 

Fed. Rules - No outs, no one on base. B1 swings and misses strike 3. F2 has the ball pop out of her glove into fair territory. B1, after a slight hesitation, starts running toward 1st base. Ball contacts the foot of the BR in fair territory in front of the plate as the catcher is bending down to pick up the ball. The was NO intention by the BR to touch the ball.

The umpire ruled Interference and called B1 out.

Was the umpire correct?

Did the action of the BR impede or hinder the opportunity of the fielder to make the play on the ball? Sounds like the definition of interference in the FED book.

Now I have two questions. 1) How do you KNOW there was NO intention by the BR to touch the ball? 2) Why should intent have any bearing? The physical act illegally hindered the defense.

In the real world, any time you hinder someone, you are liable. Change lanes and unintentionally cause a collision with the car you didn't see in your blind spot, and tell us if the police or the insurance companies give you a free pass because you didn't intend it.

"intent" on this play is a rule for a different game.

Not sure step and reach applies here, if the fielder is hit, or hits (runs into) a batted ball prior to it passing a fielder (what I would see 10foot up the line) it is interference. That is a different scenerio from teh original post but again the step and reach is only on a fielder that is trying to gain control of a 'muffed' ball

So if the catcher muffs the pitch and it ricochets off her shinguard and the ball subsequently rolls against the foot of the runner (as she is legally running to first base) as the catcher is about to pick up the ball, we penalize the offense?

I'll never call that. :mad:

NFHS 8-2-6

The batter-runner is out... when the batter-runner interfers with a dropped third strike.

Pretty cut and dry to me.

BTW, ASA has the same thing: 8-2-F(6)

And I like the way it is ruled in "the other game" a whole lot better!

OK, dumb question, not after a muff and same ruling would apply.

The question then might be if it matters whether there was no play possible and if it is treated the same as a "batted" ball.
IOW, "Did the action of the BR impede or hinder the opportunity of the fielder to make the play on the ball?"

I know this is an old thread but I was searching for an opinion on the post I posted and came across this and decided to toss my two cents in. My question is since the catcher HAD an attempt to retire the batter by catching the third strike you would than have to believe the batter INTENTIONALLY tried to obstruct the catcher from making a play on him?

Hey Varefump,

I don't see an out here since the BR is doing what she is suppose to be doing, which is starting her advance toward 1st base. Her foot probably would not have contacted the ball if she had a quicker start toward 1st, but once she realized the ball was dropped she started her advance. I don't think the Umpire made the correct call because both players where doing what they were suppose to be doing while they were in very close quarters to the plate and the ball. I think all we have here is ...no infraction, play on! ...Al

Guys...

Intent isn't required in this situation. Not in ASA and not in NFHS.

If interference happens on a dropped third strike by the batter-runner, then you've got an out. Period. End of story.

Go re-read that rule one more time.

After a re-read of the ASA softball rule; and finding no exceptions to it, I now believe the umpire did make the correct call, SRW. But, IMO, this is a terrible rule. I can't understand a rule that would penalize a player when she has done nothing wrong. So a dropped 3rd strike that bounces off the the catchers mitt and hits the BR while still standing in the batters box must be called out by rule of interference? :( No wonder Mike tried to change this rule. But umpires are on the field to make calls according to the rules whether they think they are just, unjust, fair or unfair. I expect one day to have an upset coach telling me I made a bad call cause his player didn't do anything she wasn't suppose to be doing. Of couse, that's better than not making an inteference call and having a knowledgable coach protest. I suspect many of the fans and many coaches on the losing end of this goffy interference call won't go down without swinging (at the Ump). :eek: Thanks to all! ...Al

No automatically..

Did the BR interfere with the play????

That is the question.

I agree with you and mike though, it could be better written. For me, the bb way of writing this rule is just fine and saves umpires from making errors and calling outs when they shouldnt.

ASA is trying to get outs that should be called.. as a fully foreseen (by many of the umps on this board) result they are getting outs that SHOULDNT be called.

[Originally Posted by SRW
Guys...

Intent isn't required in this situation. Not in ASA and not in NFHS.

If interference happens on a dropped third strike by the batter-runner, then you've got an out. Period. End of story.

Go re-read that rule one more time.


Words have meaning. In 2007 NFHS added the word "Illegally" to the interference definition. There must be an illegal act committed in order for there to be interference. Running in a straight line to advance to the next base is not illegal. Getting hit by a deflected (muffed) ball is not illegal. Accidently coming in contact with a deflected (muffed) ball is not illegal.

The step and a reach rule only protects the fielder from contact with the runner, it does not protect the ball. The runner has done nothing illegal therefore, there is no interference on this play.

Remember the OP asked about NFHS rules not ASA.


NKYFP FAN

The rule does not state that the runner must commit an illegal act for it to be interference. The rule states/infers that impeding, hindering, or confusing any fielder is illegal.

I read it completely different than you state, it is in fact different than you state, and case plays, such as 8.2.6.d, 8.6.10d plus many more do not support your contention. Not only that, but your contention would expand the interference definition beyond it's use in any sport/association/rule set involving a bat and ball.

I no longer do Fed, but in ASA, I judge INT with an uncaught third strike the same way I would judge INT with a thrown ball. It does not have to be intentional, but it does have to involve some sort of overt action. Just as a runner advancing to 3B is not automatically out for INT if the throw from the outfield hits her in the back, a BR is not out if an uncaught third strike bounces off the catcher and directly into a motionless BR. But a ball lying on the ground and unintentionally kicked by the BR is INT.

That doesn't mean I like the rule. I would like to see a loose uncaught third strike treated like a loose throw, as in OBR.

Hey Greymule,


I understand, according to rule, unintentionally kicking a ball that's lying on the ground would be INT. But, is there any overt action by the BR if a ball blindly rolls into her as she is advancing to first? How could it be known that the ball was going to be deflected at her? I would think that would be similar to a BR being blindly hit in the back by a defenders thrown ball. It seems strange to judge some overt action by the BR when a ball rolls, bounces, etc. into her as she is just starting her advance to 1st. Thanks, ...Al

No, that's not what the rule says in NFHS; it states:
"ART. 1 . . .Interference is an act (physical or verbal) by a member of the team at bat who illegally impedes, hinders or confuses any fielder; …"

It makes a difference where you place the word illegally in the definition. The way I see it, if the BR does not illegally impede, hinder or confuse the catcher, I've got nothing but a live ball.

My 2 cents...

dh

Reffin Sgt,
You are correct! There are many examples of plays where a runner could impede or hinder a fielder but it would not be ruled interference.

R1 on 1st base, gets a good jump on the pitch and heads into 2nd base for a steal attempt, she makes a good clean legal slide and knocks the feet out from under F6 who is waiting for the throw. (a) F6 has the ball but drops it on the impact, (b) F6 never catches the ball because of the impact. In either case F6 was hindered from catching the ball however, there is no interference because this was a legal slide.


R1 on 2nd base, B2 hits line drive down 3rd base line and the ball rolls towrds DB area, R1 rounds 3rd and heads for home, F7 picks up ball and throws home, R1 is 3/4 way home when throw from F7 hits her in the back. F2 was impeded from catching the ball but, this is not interference because R1 did nothing illegal.


R1 on 1st base, B2 hits ground ball to F4 who is playing 2-3 steps behind the base path of R1, the ball takes a bad hop and hits off F4's shin and bounces forward into the path of R1, accidental contact is made between R1 and the ball, F4 can not now make a play. R1 impeded F4 from completing the play but, she did nothing illegal and interference should not be called.

The step and a reach rule protects the fielder from contact but it does not protect the ball.

There are many other examples that could be given but, that's enough to prove the point that interference is only called on an illegal act.

NKYFP FAN

This is the equivalent to talking about bananas. I dont know of any rule set where this is INT.

More bananas

I'm not sure what you interpret that to mean, and I'm tired of the bananas.

R1@2B - grounder to F6 R1 runs and accidentally contacts F6's glove as f6 is fielding it, causing F6 to miss the ball.

Interference or no?

If you got INT, we are on the same page. If you contend the runner did nothing illegal so it is not INT, you are wrong.

Wadeintothem,
Please reread the OP. It is talking about a runner ACCIDENTLY making contact with a deflected (muffed) (missplayed) BALL.
You have given two case plays and one sample play where a runner makes contact with a FIELDER. Fielder and ball are two very different things. Everyone knows contact with a fielder is illegal, but that is not what we are talking about.

Please give us the rule # or the case play # in NFHS where it says " a runner is out when she ACCIDENTLY comes in contact with a deflected ball".

When you can do that, I will change my mind.


NKYFP FAN

Wade writes: "That's bananas" "More bananas" and ..."I'm not sure what you interpret that to mean, and I'm tired of the bananas".

Knock-knock...Who's there? Orange... Orange who? Orange ya glad I didn't say Banana?

All that banana talk brought my 3 year old grand-girls favorite knock-knock joke to mind...

Seriously, Wade, I have to get a firm and correct understanding of what constitutes INT in a dropped 3rd strike situation. I just know this is gonna happen and I don't want to be unsure of what the proper call should be. I like what greymule has written, but I'm not exactly sure what would constitute an overt action by the BR. What I want to know is just how cut and dry the rule is. From reading the thread I think I'm not the only one who would like to be more sure before this sit happens to them.

Is it interference if a runner blindly gets hits from behind with a dropped 3rd strike that deflects off the catcher?

Would it be INT if a fielder has no chance to throw the BR out became of where the ball went after hitting the BR from behind?

Must there be some illegal or overt action by the BR before INT should be called?

If so, what would constitute overt action by the BR? ...Fun at the ole' ball park! Thank you! ...Al