Pitching videos.

[Skahtboi]

Don't know if any of you have seen these yet (I am sure some of you have) from NFHS.

http://www.nfhs.org/web/2008/02/soft..._training.aspx

Applicable to most rulesets.

[SC Ump]

They are good and we have passed the links around our local association. Thanks for sharing.

One thing I would like to see more of, and learn more about, is a variation on the crow hop here. In the associated link, they show a style where the pitcher has his hands together, his feet leave the pitching plate and replant, his hands separate and he goes straight into the windmill. The base umpire is instructed to focus on the point of the feet at the time the hands separate for determining a crow hop.

What I think is not specified is the following situation which I see often in local NFHS ball: the pitcher has her pivot foot on the pitching plate, she separates her hands and moves her pitching arm back past the hip, her pivot foot drags forward. Then, as her arm start moving forward into the windmill, she replants her pivot foot and pushes off from that new spot several feet closer to the batter.

My previous understanding of the second situation was that it too was a crow hop. With my new understanding that for a crow hop it "only matters" where the pivot foot is at the time the hands separate, I am now calling it differently than I have over the last x years. I would just like further confirmation that I am understanding it correctly.

Any thoughts?

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by SC Ump

They are good and we have passed the links around our local association. Thanks for sharing.

One thing I would like to see more of, and learn more about, is a variation on the crow hop here. In the associated link, they show a style where the pitcher has his hands together, his feet leave the pitching plate and replant, his hands separate and he goes straight into the windmill. The base umpire is instructed to focus on the point of the feet at the time the hands separate for determining a crow hop.

What I think is not specified is the following situation which I see often in local NFHS ball: the pitcher has her pivot foot on the pitching plate, she separates her hands and moves her pitching arm back past the hip, her pivot foot drags forward. Then, as her arm start moving forward into the windmill, she replants her pivot foot and pushes off from that new spot several feet closer to the batter.

My previous understanding of the second situation was that it too was a crow hop. With my new understanding that for a crow hop it "only matters" where the pivot foot is at the time the hands separate, I am now calling it differently than I have over the last x years. I would just like further confirmation that I am understanding it correctly.

Any thoughts?

'
hmnmm that sound crow hoppish to me, I wish you could find a video showing what you mean. I've never heard it phrased that way.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by SC Ump

They are good and we have passed the links around our local association. Thanks for sharing.

One thing I would like to see more of, and learn more about, is a variation on the crow hop here. In the associated link, they show a style where the pitcher has his hands together, his feet leave the pitching plate and replant, his hands separate and he goes straight into the windmill. The base umpire is instructed to focus on the point of the feet at the time the hands separate for determining a crow hop.

What I think is not specified is the following situation which I see often in local NFHS ball: the pitcher has her pivot foot on the pitching plate, she separates her hands and moves her pitching arm back past the hip, her pivot foot drags forward. Then, as her arm start moving forward into the windmill, she replants her pivot foot and pushes off from that new spot several feet closer to the batter.

My previous understanding of the second situation was that it too was a crow hop. With my new understanding that for a crow hop it "only matters" where the pivot foot is at the time the hands separate, I am now calling it differently than I have over the last x years. I would just like further confirmation that I am understanding it correctly.

Any thoughts?

I would also like to be able to see a video of what you are describing. But, from what I am picturing from your post, this sounds like a replant, and hence an IP.

[Dakota]

He's describing the drag off the plate and a second push-off in front of the plate. While technically perhaps not a crow hop, it is still illegal.

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by Dakota

He's describing the drag off the plate and a second push-off in front of the plate. While technically perhaps not a crow hop, it is still illegal.

To summarize my longer post above, the difference is basically:

1. hands together on pitching plate... drag or hop... replant... hands come apart.

- or -

2. hands come apart on pitching plate... drag or hop.... replant.... pitching motion continues.

In #1, the video and books this year specify that this is a crow hop. In #2, since the hands come apart while still on the pitching plate, the video infers that this is not a crow hop, even though I have always previously thought it was.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

He's describing the drag off the plate and a second push-off in front of the plate. While technically perhaps not a crow hop, it is still illegal.

Why wouldn't that be a crow hop?

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Why wouldn't that be a crow hop?

Thats what I'm wondering.. even his last post.. crow hop. I would like to know where he is hearing this and what he means though.

[WestMichBlue]

Originally Posted by SC Ump

One thing I would like to see more of, and learn more about, is a variation on the crow hop here.

What I think is not specified is the following situation which I see often in local NFHS ball: the pitcher has her pivot foot on the pitching plate, she separates her hands and moves her pitching arm back past the hip, her pivot foot drags forward. Then, as her arm start moving forward into the windmill, she replants her pivot foot and pushes off from that new spot several feet closer to the batter.

My previous understanding of the second situation was that it too was a crow hop. With my new understanding that for a crow hop it "only matters" where the pivot foot is at the time the hands separate, I am now calling it differently than I have over the last x years. I would just like further confirmation that I am understanding it correctly.

Any thoughts?

I agree with you; it is not a crow hop (based on the hands not separated definition). But it is illegal based on NFHS 6.2.C and ASA 6.3.J: "Pushing off from any place other than the pitcher's plate is illegal."

Likewise, picking up the pivot foot and replanting it on the plate is not a crow hop (crow hop is replanted in front of the plate), nor does it violate 6.2.C or 6.3.J. But it is still illegal. ASA calls that a "rocking motion" (6.3 H & I), NFHS considers it a step, then when the stride foot "steps" you are illegal because you are only allowed one step.

So if you move that pivot foot around, there are four distinct rules that can be violated - crow hop, step (or rocking), pushing off, and legal drag (or leap). Most umpires, if they are going to make a call, will call any of the first three violations a "crow hop." That's OK, as long as it makes it easy for them to understand, and nobody else knows the difference. Technically they may be wrong, but it is better to call the IP than to let it go as too many umpires are doing.

WMB