What is the NFHS "Look-Back Rule?"
 

The 2008 NFHS Rules Book and Case Book state:

Rule 2-45: PITCHER’S 16-FOOT CIRCLE (F.P.) The 16-foot circle is used for the look-back rule. A pitcher is in the 16-foot circle when both feet are within or partially within the line. The feet may touch the line and extend outside the line. (1-1-2d)

Rule 2-47 "PLAY BALL," MAKE A PLAY, INITIAL PLAY
ART. 2 . . . Make a Play.
a. Any action by the pitcher intended to cause a reaction from the runner(s) as it pertains to the look-back rule (F.P.).

Rule 8-7 (F.P.) LOOK-BACK RULE
ART. 1 . . . The look-back rule will be in effect when the ball is live, the batter-runner has touched first base or has been declared out, and the pitcher has possession of the ball within the pitcher's circle. (2-45)

8.7.1 SITUATION A: R1 is on third base when B2 receives ball four. R1 comes off the base on the pitch. The catcher throws the ball directly back to the pitcher in the 16-foot circle. Can R1 remain off third base until B2 has reached first? RULING: Yes. The look-back rule does not go into effect until the batter-runner has touched first base and the pitcher has possession of the ball in the 16-foot circle. At that time, all runners on base must immediately move forward or return to their base.

8.7.1 SITUATION C: Just after ball four is called on B2 and she is on her way to first base, R1 dances off third base and is moving back and forth between third and home. F2 throws the ball immediately back to F1 in the 16-foot circle. RULING: R1 is not restricted and governed by the look-back rule until B2 reaches first base.

They state when the "look-back rule" is in effect but where does it define the "look-back rule" in NFHS softball?

section 8-7 covers it I beleive page 70 of this years book

Note, hawk65, that the LBR has nothing whatsoever to do with anybody "looking back."

Hidden in plain sight. Rule 8-7 IS the Look Back Rule.

Carefully, and I do mean CAREFULLY, read your post again.

So what is the "look-back rule?" 8-7 states when the so-called "look-back rule" goes into effect but it does not define what the "look-back rule" is. Who does it refer to -- the runner, the batter-runner, the pitcher, the shortstop, the coach, the scorekeeper, or who? And where is that explained in the NFHS books? NOT in the definitions and NOT in 8-7. My point is these books don't explain this "look-back rule."

as already mentioned 8.7 is the Look Back Rule. Each article goes on to explain an additional aspect of said rule. you quoted art. 1 already, art 2 says runner, art 3 runner, art 4 batter-runner.

If you read these articles in whole and take all these items into account you will understand when to call the lookback rule and what actions will result in a runner or batter-runner being called out for a violation of this rule.

Hmmm...

What is the title of Rule 8-7?

Would you feel better if Art.1 started out with, "This rule will be in effect when..."

They started the rule by telling you when it applied, and then defined the responsibilities of the runners (Art.2 - 3), the responsibilities of the B-R (Art.4) and the penalty for violating the rule (PENALTY), plus an EXCEPTION clause. What more do you want?

Historical reference

In the "old days," softball required the pitcher to wait for a runner to return to the base, or to make a play to force the runner back. Eventually that turned into a lot of "game playing," or taunting of the pitcher by the runner, and delay of the game.

The responsibility to get the runner back was removed from the pitcher and given to the runner. The pitcher didn't have to do anything (more than "look them back"), the umpire would call the runner out for failure to immediately return to the bag. Eventually the rule was expanded to include all the variations (one stop, time, thru 1B, etc) that you see today. A few years ago the rules were lumped together into their own section called the Look Back rule.

Now go read the book with that perspective in mind.

WMB

He wants a definition added to Rule 2. :p

I have read the book and have quoted all the sections in the Rules Book and Case Book and I can not find a specific statement at to what the "look-back rule" is. It states when but not who can or can not "look-back" at whom. There is no such definition or specificity as to the so-called "look-back rule." If a defensive coach were to exclaim, "She can't 'look back' at the assistant coach!!" which rule/definition/case can I quote that clearly states that is not covered by the "look-back rule?"

The Rules Book (2-30) gives a very clear definition of the Infield Fly Rule -- who it applies to and under what conditions. I can find no comparable clear description of the "look-back rule."

Proposed rule change: Rule 2.35 Look Back Rule: See Rule 8.7

Does that work?:D

Guess not...What you would do in the game is direct the coach to Rule 8.7, if she did not violate any article of that rule that is how you would explain that she is not out under that rule. I do see what you mean, if you take the rule literally, what can or cannot the runner "look back" at. BUT as WMB stated this rule was put into effect so the pitcher can look the runner back. Once she sees the runner returning to the last base touched the pitcher can begin to get ready for the next pitch, no need to worry about turning his/her back on the runner...by rule if they started back (after a stop) then they are required to return to that base. Again on the field if someone asks, your answer would be she did not violate the look back rule. If it is not stated that she can't look back at the coach then she can(your example)....as long as her feet don't do anything that violates the articles in rule 8.7 she is good!

Look back rule
 

I agree that the ASA rule book could certainly be more explanatory. I know it's a different rule set, but for a much superior, EXPLANATORY version of the Look back rule, look at the rule #12.21 LOOK-BACK RULE on pages 191-193 of the 2008 NCAA Softball Rules.

You can download those off of Cactus Umpires.

If you really are having trouble understanding the look back rule, then you need more clinics and mentoring.. and perhaps posing some questions here to clarify it.

I think look back is clear in ASA and NFHS.

A definition would muddy the waters, not clarify it.. because in order to be effective, the definition would need to simply restate the entirety of the rule.

The test is...

Pose a question concerning LBR which is not covered by rule or clarification.

If the "bases" are covered, the rule is good.

I'm sure the book will continue to be rewritten ad nauseum.. but there is certainly more than enough there to cover the situations and make the rule understandable.

You can lead a horse to water........

[QUOTE=hawk65] If a defensive coach were to exclaim, "She can't 'look back' at the assistant coach!!" which rule/definition/case can I quote that clearly states that is not covered by the "look-back rule?"

QUOTE]

I doubt a coach would ever say that! If they do, "Sure she can coach" should be enough.

hawk, I hope you are not too seriously befuddled about this one. The "Look-Back Rule" is clear as a bell. In the FED book, 8-7-1 states when the rule is in effect, it IS then defined by articles 2, 3, and 4.

It's time to get the dead horse animation...

That's why the horse I led to water won't drink!!! :D

mea culpa!!
 

Okay, I finally get it!! Silly me!! I actually thought "look-back rule" would involve "looking" or "a look" or somebody taking a "look-back" at somebody or something! Instead it involves: location of feet within the 16-foot circle, stopping, starting, advancing, overruns, turns, direct moves, non-stop returns, etc., etc. -- none of which make any reference whatsoever to a "look" or "look back." This now makes perfect sense!! I'm going to go back to my book and see if "infield fly rule" involves "infield" or "infield fly."

I officiate only NFHS and have no reference to ASA or NCAA rules. Thanks to WMB for the brief historical reference and thanks to all of you for helping me finally understand. It took some prodding but this horse finally drank the water.

If you want, you could investigate what is foul about a foul tip.

And, there's also the discrimination against the outfield flies not having the same rules that the infield fly has. An investigation could be launched as to why these insects are being slighted based on their location on a ball field.:rolleyes:

It's a good thing hawk65 has a good sense of humor, at least I hope so. :)

Also reported.

This guy must have a problem with the LBR :rolleyes:

He wouldn't be the first! :D

There is a difference in the look-back rule in NFHS and ASA. In ASA, if the pitcher makes a play or fakes a throw on any player, the player is exempt from the penalty of being called out. This is a quote from the NFHS softball rules book in section 8-7:

"EXCEPTION: The runner will not be declared out if a play is made on another runner (a fake throw is considered a play), the pitcher no longer has possession of the ball within the 16-foot circle, or the pitcher releases the ball on a pitch to the batter."

So, if a pitcher makes a fake throw on a player to get her to return to her base, will not be exempt from the penalty of this rule. Also, if multiple runners remain between bases according to NFHS rules, only one may be called out in any given play.

The lookback rule in NFHS and USA (formerly ASA) are virtually identical. If the pitcher makes a play in either or fakes a play in either the lookback rule is off. The only real difference is the requirements of the pitcher having the ball in the circle. In NFHS the pitcher only has to have possession. She can have the ball under her arm, between her legs, under her chin etc. If the pitcher physically has the ball in the circle the lookback rule is in force.

In USA, the pitcher must have possession and control, and control is defined as the ball being in the pitchers hand or in her glove. If she puts the ball under her arm, between legs etc she is not considered to have control and the lookback rule is not in effect.