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Chess Ref Sun Feb 10, 2008 08:20pm

Mechanic question
 
I went and watched a JUCO DH today and had several things came up. So I figure I'd do seperate threads on each.

Fly ball to outfield, runner on 3B, when outfielder catches it and runner takes off the PU said "Tag is good." Now this was done in a loud voice to let everyone know. So is this a correct mechanic ? I haven't heard anyone do this before .

1. For NCAA-the ruleset used in the game ?

2. For NFHS ?

3. For ASA ?

IRISHMAFIA Sun Feb 10, 2008 08:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chess Ref
I went and watched a JUCO DH today and had several things came up. So I figure I'd do seperate threads on each.

Fly ball to outfield, runner on 3B, when outfielder catches it and runner takes off the PU said "Tag is good." Now this was done in a loud voice to let everyone know. So is this a correct mechanic ? I haven't heard anyone do this before .

1. For NCAA-the ruleset used in the game ?

2. For NFHS ?

3. For ASA ?

Speaking ASA, this is not the proper mechanic. For that matter, there is no mechanic for this situation.

wadeintothem Sun Feb 10, 2008 08:50pm

By the book, not correct..

In the mens I have said it just to save time on the appeals and whimpering and lying later.. and usually only loud enough for someone (like F2, F6) to hear.

Steve M Sun Feb 10, 2008 09:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by wadeintothem
By the book, not correct..

In the mens I have said it just to save time on the appeals and whimpering and lying later.. and usually only loud enough for someone (like F2, F6) to hear.

So when you do not say that in men's ball, you're telling F2 that he should appeal and there was no a good tagup? Nothing quite like coaching and umpiring at the same time, is there?

No, that is not a good or proper mechanic in any kind of ball.

wadeintothem Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve M
So when you do not say that in men's ball, you're telling F2 that he should appeal and there was no a good tagup? Nothing quite like coaching and umpiring at the same time, is there?

No, that is not a good or proper mechanic in any kind of ball.

I said I have.. not that I always do or always would (or that its correct, its not).. I've had games where the teams do around the horn appeals after every single extrabase play, play after play and inning after inning.. and literally lie and complain to the effect of "I wasnt watching, thus missing the call on the base(s) they just appealed" (which is all of them), when in fact I trailed the runners and watched every single base tag.. It was in response to "hes never seen it" .. well I've seen it and done it and make no apologies for it. I of course know its not proper.

wadeintothem Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:09pm

Probably old hat to whine about me doing this, I'm about 100% sure I posted here when it happened.. about what to do when the teams are doing around the horn appeals, etc. and proper game management for that attitude. It was last year or the year before.

Dakota Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by wadeintothem
Probably old hat to whine about me doing this, I'm about 100% sure I posted here when it happened.. about what to do when the teams are doing around the horn appeals, etc. and proper game management for that attitude. It was last year or the year before.

Not whining, just asking...

In a game where you decide it helps to vocalize the runner touched the base / tagged up, what do you do when the runner DOES miss the base and / or leaves the base before tagging up?

I think that is the point... the players will know by your lack of vocal that they have an appeal to make, won't they?

wadeintothem Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakota
Not whining, just asking...

In a game where you decide it helps to vocalize the runner touched the base / tagged up, what do you do when the runner DOES miss the base and / or leaves the base before tagging up?

I think that is the point... the players will know by your lack of vocal that they have an appeal to make, won't they?

You have 100% valid points.. I cannot offer not GOOD reason to do it, except in the heat of battle in a very bad tournament of B and C level mens FP who were out of control, I can recall I did it just to let em know and to save myself some stress..

I would never do it and have never done it under normal circumstance, and was posted in response to his "never seen it"..

In my mind it was justified for the moment in time in the given situation, unjustified in his situation and any type of proper mechanic teaching.

I had multiple ejections as did most working that nightmare tournament, a forfeiture over a fight, all the umpires were under real fire..

so that was the situation.. and I just did it to stop what inevitably coming.. a throw to a base, my ruling they tagged it, an argument that they saw them leave early, i was out of position, etc etc etc.. and probably yet another ejection..

No excuses but thats the way it was...

Add it to the list of
- Crow hops so bad teams were demanding to be able to run on the crow hop (not the pitch)
- Pine tar rags in every dugout
- Pine tar covered helmet
- Gorilla gold and every other substance in use
- Balls that started a pretty optic yellow quickly becoming brown..

And all this under the direct supervision of Nor Cals top FP UIC..

No excuses, but I've done it.

Skahtboi Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:34am

There is never a time when an umpire should use a mechanic like the one mentioned in the OP, for the reasons stated that it is, in effect, tipping off the defense.

NCASAUmp Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by wadeintothem
Probably old hat to whine about me doing this, I'm about 100% sure I posted here when it happened.. about what to do when the teams are doing around the horn appeals, etc. and proper game management for that attitude. It was last year or the year before.

I can't recall that thread, but I've only been here for just under a year anyway. If they start going around the horn, I'd honor the first appeal and make my call. However, if it's obvious they intend to go around the horn for every runner (or even one runner), I'm telling them, "fellas, I'm not gonna listen to a guessing game" (unless the runner really DID miss the base).

They either have an appeal, or they don't. If they're guessing, I'm continuing the game. If they keep it up, I'm pulling the coach/captain aside and telling him/her to knock it off, or I'm tossing him/her for allowing them to behave in an unsportsmanlike manner and delaying the game.

Steve M Wed Feb 13, 2008 04:11pm

I don't know that I recall the older post, either.
I am very sure that we've all done things that we would not normally do when in "survival mode" - and that's where Wade was then. I'm also sure that this mechanic shouldn't be used - even then.
Even in survival mode - if I toss enough of them, we're all going home.


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