Alright guys as must of you have read in prior post I am going to try this fast-pitch stuff this year along with the slow-pitch and THANKS with help from Gary I attended 1st meeting this week. So far going over the differences, the pitching rules I feel I got a pretty good grasp, look-back rule I seem to understand but sure I am going to have to see it a couple of times or more to fully comprehend BUT its this dam DEFO/DP rule that blows the mind trying to keep straight I went into GCB site and read Steve M information which helps but I can see where trying to keep up with this in a game is going to be real tough.

So here is the question. How much does the DEFO/DP rule actually come up in your games?

A. All the time, you better know the rule inside and out

B. A few times a year so hope you are working with a real veteren ump on those days and do the best you can when not

C. Hardly at all and nobody else understands it either so if your not for sure just wing it best as you can and make sure you know enough to sound like you know what your talking about


Thanks for the replies

Don

For me, it is ...

D. Only at championship tournament time, so you'd better know it inside and out.

You need to know the rule because your partner will not have seen it much, either. But, most of the coaches will try to use the rule, and will either:

a) Screw something up, or,
b) Know the rule well & what they can do with it

- so you'd better be ready to rule when the opponent complains.

Don,

You usually won't see it in league play. Mostly in tournament play. Younger divisions don't seem to use it as much.

Don't try to make it too hard - it really isn't that confusing. (Easy for me to say now that I feel I understand the rule) Now that you have Steve's explanation from Joel's website, you have the best tool to use. Be sure to pack a copy in your bag.

Sooo, the answer to your question is "somewhere just below A" in tournament play. I'll even volunteer to work with you! Once you see it in proper application you'll feel comfortable with it.

Here are a DP / DEFO writeup I did...
 

<B><H2><P ALIGN="CENTER">Understanding the ASA DP / DEFO Rule</P></H2></B><P ALIGN="JUSTIFY"><H3>Starting Lineup</h3>With DP/DEFO, you have 10 starters, not 9. Both the DP and the DEFO are starting players. The DP/DEFO must be indicated on the starting lineup. Once the starting lineup has been given to the umpire, these positions cannot be added.

<H3>Batting Order / Substitutes</h3>As with any lineup, a substitute bats where the player she replaced was batting.

DP/DEFO are joined at the hip with respect to the batting order. If both players are in the game, the DEFO has number 10 in the batting order (i.e. she does not bat). The only place in the batting order that either DP or the DEFO can bat is the place the DP occupied at the beginning of the game.

In a normal substitution, one player leaves the game and one player enters the game. However, swapping the DP/DEFO for each other is a "half substitution" – that is, only one member of the pair officially leaves the game or officially re-enters the game.

For example, if the DP comes in on defense for the DEFO, the DEFO has left the game (the lineup goes from 10 to 9 players). If the DEFO re-enters on defense (which she can, 1 time), and the DP returns to offense only, the lineup goes back to 10 players. This move has not affected the DP’s starter / substitution / re-entry status in any way.

Let’s take the reverse example: If the DEFO comes in on offense for the DP, she is replacing the DP in the batting order (the lineup goes from 10 to 9). In this case, the DP is removed from the game, and the substitute re-entry rules apply to the DP. If the DP re-enters, she will re-assume her original position in the batting order, and the lineup will go from 9 to 10, and the DP will have used up her re-entry rights. The DEFO will return to playing defense only. This move has not affected the DEFO’s starter / substitution / re-entry status in any way.

Either the DP or the DEFO can be substituted for in the usual ways by other players, but the substitute takes on the position of the DP or DEFO (depending on who she is substituting for).
<H3>Defensive Position Swaps Involving the DP and DEFO</h3>As with any lineup, defensive position swaps are not substitutions.

The DP starts at the defensive position of "F10" - benchwarmer. This means you can swap the DP with any player <U>other than the DEFO</U> on defense and no one has left the game; it is not a substitution.

The player removed from defense continues to bat in her normal place in the batting order.

The DEFO can be moved from her starting defensive position to any other defensive position (except for "F10" – benchwarmer), and she remains the DEFO, and it is not a substitution.
<H3>Playing Shorthanded with DP/DEFO</h3>The ASA rule is you can continue shorthanded with l fewer player that you started the game with. If you start with DP/DEFO, while your starting lineup was 10 players, only the offensive lineup counts for the shorthanded rule. This means with DP/DEFO you need 8 players offensively to continue the game, just as before.

Just stick to your guns and don't let the coaches double talk you about it. Dakota has written an excellent review
above---memorize it!!
I call only travel ball and High School. I see it rarely in
regular travel league games, but all the time at State, Regionals and Nationals. At the higher levels, the coaches usually know the rule well themselves.

Remember, if you do NFHS ball, they use a DH, which is different than a DP. Dave

Don,
Looks like the rest of the gang has handled this pretty well. I see a lot of the DP/DEFO in college (just about every team uses it)and travel (for the most part, I only do the older age groups) - both league & tournaments - and in the men's leagues. I rarely see it get complicated. The folks who understand it the least are the men's C teams - they're as close to Ed's AA's as I get and they can get pretty close some nights.

You'll learn this rule - probably already have - just remember to take it slow. If you take the possibilities one at a time and decide that each is legal before going to the next, you'll find this really is not that complex.

I must have really been suffering from fat fingers when I entered this. I reread it this morning and had to correct some of the typos.

[Edited by Steve M on Jan 25th, 2002 at 10:04 AM]

I was at an ASA clinic when they first adopted the DP/DEFO rule. There were five instructors from ASA (OK). They spent the entire time arguing as how to administer the system. All of us in the audience wondered how we were to handle it, since the instructors couldn't agrre. Luckily, no college coach in any game I worked until I retired used it. Their feeling was, "I don't understand it, I won't use it, I don't want to forfeit".

Glad to see someone finally has it figured out.

Bob