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-   -   LLWS showtime (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/37720-llws-showtime.html)

Dakota Wed Aug 22, 2007 02:09pm
LLWS showtime
 
Look, this is entirely second-hand info, since I haven't watched more than channel-surfing amount of the LLWS (baseball) and none of the LLWS (softball), but from what others have posted here and on the baseball board, it seems that Williamsport has continued down the path of having their umpires be comedy-relief players in thier kid-drama.

Goofy dances and the like between innings are one thing, but now (again, according to what I have read in other posts) they seem to be using Naked Gun as a training film for plate umpire mechanics.

Any comments from anyone who has watched the games? Any comments from anyone with inside knowledge of how LL expects their WS umpires to act & what plate mechanics they expect? Is baseball goofier that softball or are they pretty much the same?

JEL Wed Aug 22, 2007 04:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota
Look, this is entirely second-hand info, since I haven't watched more than channel-surfing amount of the LLWS (baseball) and none of the LLWS (softball), but from what others have posted here and on the baseball board, it seems that Williamsport has continued down the path of having their umpires be comedy-relief players in thier kid-drama.

Goofy dances and the like between innings are one thing, but now (again, according to what I have read in other posts) they seem to be using Naked Gun as a training film for plate umpire mechanics.

Any comments from anyone who has watched the games? Any comments from anyone with inside knowledge of how LL expects their WS umpires to act & what plate mechanics they expect? Is baseball goofier that softball or are they pretty much the same?
Saw one at a "wet weather game" on his belly doing the "worm" and swimming strokes! Were that me, something probably would have been broken!

I understand they were told to "have fun", but geez............

Mountaineer Wed Aug 22, 2007 07:48pm
I worked a softball regional in 2004. When we got dressed for the final they told us to have fun between innings and "dance" to the songs. I'm sure they really stress that at the LLWS level - especially for the TV games.

As far as plate mechanics goes, they tell you at regionals what they want you to work on, but from what I've heard, they don't try to correct anything at the WS level. If I'm ever chosen for a WS I guess I'll find out.

bkbjones Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota
Look, this is entirely second-hand info, since I haven't watched more than channel-surfing amount of the LLWS (baseball) and none of the LLWS (softball), but from what others have posted here and on the baseball board, it seems that Williamsport has continued down the path of having their umpires be comedy-relief players in thier kid-drama.

Goofy dances and the like between innings are one thing, but now (again, according to what I have read in other posts) they seem to be using Naked Gun as a training film for plate umpire mechanics.

Any comments from anyone who has watched the games? Any comments from anyone with inside knowledge of how LL expects their WS umpires to act & what plate mechanics they expect? Is baseball goofier that softball or are they pretty much the same?
As far as goofiness goes, pretty much the same. The folks here in Kirkland were expected to do the MF Chicken Dance when it came time, and a couple actually participated while I was present (three full days and part of another).

As far as mechanics goes, well, apparently mechanics work at garages but not at the LL Junior World Series.

As far as Frank Drebin goes, I got stuck watching almost all of one TV game the other day (in a waiting room pining for a doctor to get back from the golf course or a triple bypass, I forget which). Gary Thorne and his commentator brought up Leslie Nielsen and his infamous dance. Thorne said something like, "Where have we seen this before at the plate? Naked Gun?"

When the talking heads notice, it's bad.

NM FP Ump Thu Aug 23, 2007 01:33pm
I agree with your assessment of LLWS Umpires. The tournament directors seem to want the umpires to entertain the fans during the innings, which is not the job of the umpires. That's the time for the fans to go to the snack bar or the bathroom. No "YMCA" dances, no "Chicken Dance" and no "Hokey-Pokey."

And have you noticed the fastpitch “strike” mechanic during the LLWS? And the baseball “strike” mechanic during the regional fastpitch LL games? I wish umpires would learn to chose their mechanics depending upon the game they umpire.

It’s all good to have fun with the parents, kids and coaches before or after a game, but during the game an umpire has a job to do, and so do the kids and the coaches. But if I was working a national/world series tournament, I surely wouldn’t fraternize with the players/coaches/parents. (I can hear the replies now: “Neither would I, and stop calling me Shirley.)

mick Mon Aug 27, 2007 02:45pm
LLWS Senior Texas and Indiana
R1 on 2B
Texas BR bunts 10'-12' from the plate.[12" of RF foul line]
Ball fielded by F1 who throws to F3.
BR was inside the line for the length of the running path.
F3 makes catch and BR knocks F3 down.
R1 is 15' toward 3B and, when F3 falls, R1 makes move to 3B.
F3 went down spinning, but somehow made an off-balance throw off toward F5, where R1 was safe on a moderately close play.

BR walks off the field mostly on her own [wrist].
F3 is stretchered off the field. [shoulder?]
R1 is left standing on 3B.

MD Longhorn Mon Aug 27, 2007 05:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mick
LLWS Senior Texas and Indiana
R1 on 2B
Texas BR bunts 10'-12' from the plate.[12" of RF foul line]
Ball fielded by F1 who throws to F3.
BR was inside the line for the length of the running path.
F3 makes catch and BR knocks F3 down.
R1 is 15' toward 3B and, when F3 falls, R1 makes move to 3B.
F3 went down spinning, but somehow made an off-balance throw off toward F5, where R1 was safe on a moderately close play.

BR walks off the field mostly on her own [wrist].
F3 is stretchered off the field. [shoulder?]
R1 is left standing on 3B.
Just curious ... what was the point or intent of this post?

CecilOne Mon Aug 27, 2007 05:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbcrowder
Just curious ... what was the point or intent of this post?
To see if we would have called INT or malicious contact by BR.
I might have, depending on the immediacy of knock down to catch, any effort to avoid, etc.

bkbjones Mon Aug 27, 2007 05:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mick
LLWS Senior Texas and Indiana
R1 on 2B
Texas BR bunts 10'-12' from the plate.[12" of RF foul line]
Ball fielded by F1 who throws to F3.
BR was inside the line for the length of the running path.
F3 makes catch and BR knocks F3 down.
R1 is 15' toward 3B and, when F3 falls, R1 makes move to 3B.
F3 went down spinning, but somehow made an off-balance throw off toward F5, where R1 was safe on a moderately close play.

BR walks off the field mostly on her own [wrist].
F3 is stretchered off the field. [shoulder?]
R1 is left standing on 3B.
Having seen what I saw on TV, I would definitely have called INT on this. Might have gotten me a malicious contact, too, but that's iffy. I'd definitely have INT.

Of course, there were baseball umpires working a LLWS softball final...again. the HP umpire was all baseball, and while he wasn't completely brutal, he wasn't out there to do softball.

ESPN is supposed to show the LLWS from here in Kirkland. Viewer beware... But some of these guys were actually ok. Others, well...

bigsig Mon Aug 27, 2007 06:42pm
I watched the play and thought it was a clean hit. If you watch the 2B who took the throw at 1B she had the wrong foot (her right foot) on the bag which IMO put her into the path of the runner.

Having said that, the next inning the other team crashed into the F3 which I thought was obvious interference and retaliation. I wouild have tossed the base runner.

mick Mon Aug 27, 2007 07:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigsig
I watched the play and thought it was a clean hit. If you watch the 2B who took the throw at 1B she had the wrong foot (her right foot) on the bag which IMO put her into the path of the runner.

Having said that, the next inning the other team crashed into the F3 which I thought was obvious interference and retaliation. I wouild have tossed the base runner.
If BR hadn't run the distance inside the path, then F4 (not F3 as I wrote) would not have been close enough to BR to get knocked down and would have held R1 @2B. Seems to me R1 returns to 2B.

GrumpUmp Mon Aug 27, 2007 09:43pm
I saw this play. I thought BR deliberately ran inside the line in fair territory. I also thought she deliberately took out F4. I think the calls should have been:

BR out at 1st
Deliberate and malicious interference on BR after the out
Runner closest to home out
BR ejected

R1 was going to 3rd on the play. I know that F4 threw to 3rd after being hit but she was spun around and if not for being hit I think she had a good opportunity for an out at 3rd.

I also think this play is a good argument for the double safety base at first.

bkbjones Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigsig
I watched the play and thought it was a clean hit. If you watch the 2B who took the throw at 1B she had the wrong foot (her right foot) on the bag which IMO put her into the path of the runner.

Two things:
No requirement on which foot is on the bag. I know, I know...it's a fielding mechanics deal. But there's no rule that says she has to have a certain foot on the bag...just like no rule that coaches must have common sense.

And...

There's a reason for that running lane. This runner clearly had both feet inside the line (i.e. on the fair side of the line) the whole way.

BTW, I don't have a problem if you don't want to call INT, for INT is a judgement call.

mick Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkbjones
Two things:
No requirement on which foot is on the bag. I know, I know...it's a fielding mechanics deal. But there's no rule that says she has to have a certain foot on the bag...just like no rule that coaches must have common sense.

And...

There's a reason for that running lane. This runner clearly had both feet inside the line (i.e. on the fair side of the line) the whole way.

BTW, I don't have a problem if you don't want to call INT, for INT is a judgement call.
Now, I realize that this play had little or no effect on the game.

That said, BR, after avoiding the ball, was angled straight to the lane and then veered left to intentionally "attempt" to interfere with the throw. If it was not intentional she would not have taken her first step at the beginning of the lane to the left.

Skahtboi Tue Aug 28, 2007 09:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mick
If BR hadn't run the distance inside the path, then F4 (not F3 as I wrote) would not have been close enough to BR to get knocked down and would have held R1 @2B. Seems to me R1 returns to 2B.
But, you forgot to mention that the F3 was totally blocking the bag prior to her receiving the ball. That is an element that also needs consideration. ;)


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