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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jul 22, 2007, 10:02pm
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How to handle this oops

ASA Jo ball

1 out, R1 on 3rd.

I'm on the bases. PU is a newer guy in his 2nd year. Overall a pretty good umpire, but still green.

Ground ball to short who throws to 1st for the routine 2nd out. As she throws, the runner from 3rd takes off for home. The 1st baseman throws home for the bang bang play at the plate and........The PU is starting to walk away from the play towards 3rd and isn't watching!

There is nobody to make a call. I call time. By this time, the PU realizes his mistake. We get together and he tells me that he thought the out at first was the 3rd out. I asked him if he saw the play at home and he said that he didn't see it very well.
I watched the play from my position and it looked like she was tagged out, but she easily could have been under the tag. There was no way for me to tell from where I was.

What would you do?

I'll wait for some responses before I tell you the rest of the story.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jul 22, 2007, 10:39pm
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you tell your partner what you saw, then PU makes the call...and lives with what follows....
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jul 22, 2007, 11:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archangel
you tell your partner what you saw, then PU makes the call...and lives with what follows....

And may I add, prepare for a well deserved *** chewing!
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 23, 2007, 06:23am
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But Blue... You called time!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by umpharp
ASA Jo ball
There is nobody to make a call. I call time. By this time, the PU realizes his mistake. We get together and he tells me that he thought the out at first was the 3rd out. I asked him if he saw the play at home and he said that he didn't see it very well.
Seems to me that once you call time, all play should cease. I would have to put the runner back on third as she had not scored when time was called.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 23, 2007, 06:41am
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Well, if neither umpire is sure of the out, there is only one other option and it isn't a "do over".
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 23, 2007, 07:57am
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thanks for the quick responses.

I didn't call time until after the play. I know not really necessary since there was no one else on base.

Here is what we/I did. Right or wrong

After discussing things with the PU. I decided that I would make the call. I did see the play and even though I was several feet away, I decided to call what I saw which was an out.

Had I not been looking, I'm not sure what I would have done. I thought "This is no different then making a decision on a trap/no trap diving catch in the outfield." and I know that when doing one man, we sometimes end up making a call from a lot further away then we want to be, so an out was recorded.

Both coaches were very good. I know that it could have been ugly. Neither coach had a problem with the call and the game went on.

As for my partner. I'm pretty sure he learned his lesson. He apologized several times and does a decent job, so hopefully this doesn't cause him a setback.
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Old Mon Jul 23, 2007, 09:44am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umpharp
ASA Jo ball

1 out, R1 on 3rd.

I'm on the bases. PU is a newer guy in his 2nd year. Overall a pretty good umpire, but still green.

Ground ball to short who throws to 1st for the routine 2nd out. As she throws, the runner from 3rd takes off for home. The 1st baseman throws home for the bang bang play at the plate and........The PU is starting to walk away from the play towards 3rd and isn't watching!

There is nobody to make a call. I call time. By this time, the PU realizes his mistake. We get together and he tells me that he thought the out at first was the 3rd out. I asked him if he saw the play at home and he said that he didn't see it very well.
I watched the play from my position and it looked like she was tagged out, but she easily could have been under the tag. There was no way for me to tell from where I was.

What would you do?

I'll wait for some responses before I tell you the rest of the story.
My first reaction is "don't guess an out", apologize profusely. Now I'll read the rest of the posts.
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Old Mon Jul 23, 2007, 09:46am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeRef
Seems to me that once you call time, all play should cease. I would have to put the runner back on third as she had not scored when time was called.
The sequence " bang bang play at the plate and........The PU is starting to walk away from the play towards 3rd and isn't watching!There is nobody to make a call. I call time" does saythe runner arrived at home plate before time was called.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 23, 2007, 11:16am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne
The sequence " bang bang play at the plate and........The PU is starting to walk away from the play towards 3rd and isn't watching!There is nobody to make a call. I call time" does saythe runner arrived at home plate before time was called.

Sentences and paragraphs are typically read like a time line...with the events happening in the order they are spoken/typed/written.

Since a bang bang play at the plate was written before he called time, I'm going on the assumption that the "play" in question happened before he called time, since it is written that way.
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Old Tue Jul 24, 2007, 12:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPRempe
Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne
The sequence "bang bang play at the plate and........The PU is starting to walk away from the play towards 3rd and isn't watching!There is nobody to make a call. I call time" does say the runner arrived at home plate before time was called.
Sentences and paragraphs are typically read like a time line...with the events happening in the order they are spoken/typed/written.

Since a bang bang play at the plate was written before he called time, I'm going on the assumption that the "play" in question happened before he called time, since it is written that way.
In other words, you agree with CecilOne, who was disagreeing with DeRef, who claimed that R1 hadn't scored before time was called. This is much less wordy.
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Old Tue Jul 24, 2007, 01:18pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umpharp
thanks for the quick responses.

I didn't call time until after the play. I know not really necessary since there was no one else on base.

Here is what we/I did. Right or wrong

After discussing things with the PU. I decided that I would make the call. I did see the play and even though I was several feet away, I decided to call what I saw which was an out.

Had I not been looking, I'm not sure what I would have done. I thought "This is no different then making a decision on a trap/no trap diving catch in the outfield." and I know that when doing one man, we sometimes end up making a call from a lot further away then we want to be, so an out was recorded.

Both coaches were very good. I know that it could have been ugly. Neither coach had a problem with the call and the game went on.

As for my partner. I'm pretty sure he learned his lesson. He apologized several times and does a decent job, so hopefully this doesn't cause him a setback.
In the first post you say you THINK it was an out, but thougth the runner COULD HAVE gotten under the tag... therefore, you didn't see a tag. You are guessing. In THIS pots, you say you saw an out. Which is it.

Don't guess an out. If you don't SEE a tag, you don't HAVE a tag.
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Old Tue Jul 24, 2007, 06:17pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrowder
In the first post you say you THINK it was an out, but thougth the runner COULD HAVE gotten under the tag... therefore, you didn't see a tag. You are guessing. In THIS pots, you say you saw an out. Which is it.

Don't guess an out. If you don't SEE a tag, you don't HAVE a tag.
Unless of course, it is late and you need an adult beverage and you need that out to finish the game.

Now, I have never done anything like that. Er hmm, cough cough.

(Seriously) I have done that only in an adult game when it was very friendly and everyone was in on the gag.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 24, 2007, 08:07pm
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Yes I thought it was an out. From my vantage point, it looked like an out. Was I 100% sure that it was an out, no. Since I was far away, her hand COULD have slipped in. I'm sure we have all made calls that we wern't 100% on.
I understand that we never want to guess somebody being out, but I think that calling her safe because "nobody saw it" would have led to more trouble then me calling what I saw.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 25, 2007, 12:14am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umpharp
Was I 100% sure that it was an out, no.
You answered the question right there. Safe.

I know, we don't get paid for safes. We do get paid to get them right, and if they're not 100% out, then they can't be out.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 25, 2007, 09:13am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umpharp
Yes I thought it was an out. From my vantage point, it looked like an out. Was I 100% sure that it was an out, no. Since I was far away, her hand COULD have slipped in. I'm sure we have all made calls that we wern't 100% on.
I understand that we never want to guess somebody being out, but I think that calling her safe because "nobody saw it" would have led to more trouble then me calling what I saw.
I understand that you were put into a horrible position by an inattentive partner. But your "default call" on tag plays that you are unsure of, ESPECIALLY those out of your area should be SAFE. Yes, we've all made calls that we weren't 100% sure of ... but you have to be 100% sure of a tag play to call it an out.
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