Redesignate the DP?
 

Ok had a 16U A ASA tourney this weekend. First off PU and I discuss the manly nature of the coach using the Flex / DP with only 10 players on the team. Top of first inning SS collides with runner from 2nd going after hit ball for an INT call 3rd out of the inning and they hit hard....both down, runner gets up fielder is hurt, seperated her shoulder (found out later after she got back from hospital). So yep you guessed it she was not the flex or the DP so now we have a shorthanded team. Coach wants to redesignate the DP as the injured girl so the flex can bat for her....we inform him that isn't possible he has a fit, mild considering it was his daughter that is now on the way to the hospital, but he insists you can do that well a few minutes later and a UIC consult he agrees we are wrong but it won't change so we go on. So the question....Is there any rule set where you can redesignate the DP once the game has started???

Also side note shorthanded team won 6-0, one run came with 2 outs runner on 3rd and there was an illegal pitch when the F2 jumped outside the catchers box once the F1 started her wind up but prior to releasing the ball, trying to intentionally walk to get to the automatic out that was next in the lineup. Ya pitching coach got a trip to the parking lot following that discussion......

UIC agreed with who?
 

"Coach wants to redesignate the DP as the injured girl so the flex can bat for her....we inform him that isn't possible he has a fit, mild considering it was his daughter that is now on the way to the hospital, but he insists you can do that well a few minutes later and a UIC consult he agrees we are wrong but it won't change so we go on."

The UIC agred with you the umpire, correct? That you cannot "redesignate" the PD. Correct?

If I'm reading this correctly, I certainly hope your UIC isn't the person who trains your umpires.

None that I'm aware of.

Sorry for the wierd wording, UIC agreed with us and told coach that he was incorrect you could not do that starting DP is always DP, unless you legally substitute for that person. Coach still did not agree with that pulled the old "We have done that before in an ASA tourney, I know that its legal" so he (the coach) agreed to disagree with us and since the UIC backed us up he was not going to change it so the game went on playing shorthanded on offense and 9 on defense. It was a female UIC and male coach so when I put he agreed we were wrong, I figured everyone knew I was talking about the coach! :o

Don't ask, don't tell. :)

Thank you for staying on topic with your view of the world. :p :D

I think it's called "coaches wish list", under "I don't know lineups" or maybe "backyard rules". :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=DaveASA/FED] So the question....Is there any rule set where you can redesignate the DP once the game has started???

QUOTE]

Here is a rather odd one where it might be possible.

In a GRPA (GA rec) "MITE" (10U) State this weekend I was UIC. GRPA uses ASA based play, with a few addendums. One had to do with the shorthanded rule. The ruling uses the ASA shorthanded ruling until (due to injury) a team drops to 7 players. The team can then enter any player on the bench (burned sub) to bring the number back to 8. The DP/FLEX was being used, so I would have allowed the re-designation IF a team had dropped to 7.

This actually came into question in one game where a bee sting took an F5 out. This team was using the DP/FLEX, and wanted to enter a sub in another spot to avoid playing shorthanded. The intent of the GRPA ruling is to avoid a forfeit I'm sure, but it was a bit difficult for some of the rec directors to understand it.

New guy here, why can't ASA just due away with the DP/FLEX ? To me being in my first year just seems to make it more confusing. I'm actually coming acrossed it for the first time this weekend.:

Why would they do away with it. The DP is the single most potent position in the lineup. The DP/Flex actually makes a whole lot more sense than the old DH rule did in high school ball. The DP originated in college ball in '84 or so. I think ASA picked it up in '86. It is a softball standard and all of the major softball sanctioning bodies use it.

Better learn it!

Many now use the DP/FLEX including FED and NCAA. In fact it is almost the norm in NCAA, and rare when it is NOT used in FED. Some coaches will institute the DP/FLEX during line-up exchange, and then as the game starts will sub out the DP, just so the option is available for the rest of the game.

It allows the coach several options to manage his game, rest his players, use his players etc. Once they learn all the benefits, it becomes standard practice for them.

Go to Tom's site on e-teamz for a very good explanation of the system,
http://eteamz.active.com/softballumpires/
Look under the handouts section.

There is also a very good power point presentation that Emily Alexander put together at the "cactus umpires" site (do a search). It shows how to keep up with all subs, and also the DP/FLEX subs.


One thing that may be confusing you is the nomenclature. The DP is actually the DH (bats) but she can play defense, thus she is a DP (player). The FLEX plays defense (any position) and can also bat in the DP spot (makes it a sub). This makes that position, (FLEX) a FLEXible position!

Again, you better learn it! It ain't going away!

I really do not care for the term FLEX. The only thing the FLEX can do that the DP cannot is play defense only, but the FLEX cannot play offense only.

One is no more "flexible" than the other. Personally, I liked the term DEFO as that is the actual description of the player in the 10th spot.

JMHO

Yeah, I thought DEFO was more descriptive. But, if that's what it took to get everyone using it, OK.

Yeah, I agree. I think the term "FLEX" appeared about the time the NFHS added the rule, but I don't know if they (NFHS) invented the FLEX name. I've always thought the name was odd since the DP is actually the more flexible position in that she can play defense for anyone, whereas the FLEX can only play offense for the DP.