From the baseball board....
 

The guys that play with the little balls are on our case.....

http://forum.officiating.com/showthread.php?t=35338

The "little ballers" are exactly correct.

NCAA umps look like robots.

ASA is not far behind in that.

The excuse "so anyone can work together" flies OK with rotational field mechanics.. its lame when talking about certain issues like strike calling or certain forms of individuality in the way you sell your calls.

IMO, NCAA umpires look absolutely atrocious.

I hope I dont look like that when I'm calling... but who knows since I do use prescribed mechanics.

W...i...d...e plate stance
 

When did it become a requirement for the PU to perform a split? Most of the plate umpires are so wide that they stagger back to the upright position between pitches like Bambi trying to stand up on ice. Sure doesn't look "balanced and comfortable" to me.

Maybe I'm just jealous because arthritis and (lack of) flexibility keep me from getting as wide as I'd like. ;)

I think the 'robotics' are required in softball to do a good job. I think it's a faster game when played well.... and plate umpires can't afford the luxury of turning to the side to perform one of those styling and profiling baseball stike mechanics.

(I think they can be robotic, too, but they just change every couple of years. Lately they've been getting near us.)

I also agree with Texas Aggie's posting. Them boys sure do look purdee in their high dollar uniforms. ;)

I totally agree.

It takes about an hour for a NCAA/ASA plate umpire to call a strike(following book guidelines) and the mechanic is about as sophisticated as little league.They use the same strike call whether it is a called strike or the batter swings...and the strikeout call is the same as a BU's sell out. It gives the impression that to work the big games you better follow the cookie cutter pictures.

And could we please get a new ASA dress code?...blue pants have been out of fashion since Jimmy Carter. Most umpire clothing stores no longer even stock them.

And what is with BU's in the playoffs carrying the clickers in their hands?

Nothing against the ability of the ones I have seen on TV(although I am not sure by TV replays if the Arizona player touced the plate with the only run of the game)

But the mechanics and dress need some updates.

Thankfully we dont wear (and havent for 4 years) the blue pants.. those horrible things.. We wear the heather grey.

The NCAA 3K looking strike call that they obviously mandate to a rigid standard is the most goofy looking thing.. AT LEAST ASA doesnt mandate this and allows some individuality there (although in clinic this stupid thing is always taught)

You rarely ever see the replay of the 3K sell out which includes the ump.. #1, its goofy and the TV people know it, #2, they have pranced themselves out of the frame of the video.

A good exciting sell out should be right there, immediate, and not prancing 2 yards up 3rd base line kicking your legs out 2 minutes after the pitch was delivered.

Its very .. um.. "rainbowish".. in appearance.

It's meant to assure the coaches who _allow_ them to work their games that they are not calling a legal strike zone and wont call anything high.

Thats my guess anyway.

Umpire's Uniform
 

IT SHOULD NOT MATTER IF YOU HAVE ON BLUE OR GREY IF THE JOB IS DONE RIGHT WHO CARES!!!!!!!!

What is a "clicker" and whats wrong with the base umpire carrying one?


I like the blue..hope they stay around forever.....

and dont forget most of the plate umpires VERBALIZE the calls first, so the players know what it is before the signal is given.... sorry you dont like to wait...

I think its pretty much common knowledge that at any decent level of littleball, the BU carrying a clicker is an affront to decency. :D

I dont think its a big deal though. In fact, I'm thankful many times my BU has a clicker. :cool:

Heck, I always have my indicator when I'm BU, with another one in my ball bag (in case my partner forgets his/hers).

You wear a ball bag as BU?:confused:

Oh, we're not starting this again. ;)

Actually, our org assigns us to 3 games per night. I usually do games 1 and 3 behind the plate, and game 2 on the bases. So yes, my ball bag is with me, but I usually remember to take it off when I'm BU. Sometimes I forget, but hey... it's only rec ball. :P

Heck no!!

It gets in the way of my fanny pack, in which I keep an extra clicker in case I drop mine.

Good one. x

AAACK... you weren't kidding. Sorry.

Surely you take off your plate gear between games, right? Ditch the ball bag at the same time.

I'm pretty sure NCASAUmp has stated in the past that all he does is SP, so I don't think he has any 'other' gear other than a ball bag.

Haven't read the thread, may later but really don't care!

The wide stance is one I fought a while. It just can't be done! Jim Craig had me in such a wide stance at a clinic one year I thought I would never get up! Dick Gayler "dinged" me at Nationals saying I needed to be wider. I was also hit at HS state and told to go wider. Man, were those guys wrong, until I really tried to widen out. There is no way (thought I) with my bad knees, back, and other parts I could ever go more than about 3' or so. I am now up to over a 5' spread, and must admit---Jim, Dick and others knew what they were talkng about!

The wide stance allows an easy "drop to set" that doesn't strain my knees and back as bad as they used to be. I can keep my back straighter than I used to thus I am seeing the track of the ball better, not looking at an angle. I feel my consistency is much better with this type of stance. You might feel a bit "exposed" in this stance, but one leg is behind the catcher, and the other behind the batter. I haven't been hit as much it seems. I have also learned to shift to one leg or the other and can still get up without wobbling. It takes some practice.

The strke is called while down, I am a loudmouth, most players can hear the vocal, (strike) as well as the dugouts. I do give the hammer when up, but still in the "spread". It seems to go smoothly.

I don't care for the navy britches either, but would wear pink if that was the official uni! Just no royal blue polyesther shorts and white knee socks! (I saw that locally this week!).

I don't even own a "clicker", but I do use an indicator at all positions, even when I have worked a 6 man crew. I also keep a scorecard in the field and record CR's and pitching/catching changes. You never know when the PU may need your assistance, or suppose he were to go down? I have as much game inf as possible recorded. The "gripe" I've heard from some is that after a play, it seems all umpires tend to immediately bring the indicator up, and take their eyes off the field. That may be, but if used correctly, the indicator shouldn't be noticeable.

I also carry and use a plate brush in the field!


I use these same basics when I am playing with the "little balls" (except I don't sweep the rubber, may sweep a base every now and then) and have been evaluated with no negatives, and have also worked deep into HS state finals.

There are only two reasons for you to keep your ball bag on while BU...
1. The first pitch of game 2 is 1 min after the last out of game 1.
2. The park has so little parking that the umpires take a shuttle bus to the field.

Otherwise, ditch the ball bag on the bases.;)

Hence the need for the indicator as BU I suppose....

Jel - were you calling a tournament this weekend? In Texas? What you describes sounds exactly like the professionalism exhibited by one of my partners over the weekend.

My point of View, and Mine Alone
 

That wasn't me I don't think. I can't remember back that far (that's why I carry an indicator on the field!)

Your partner had probably run into JIm, Dick, or one of the other guy's.

My .02
 

I umpire BB, though last week I worked an ASA FP tournament for an evening.

And I worked your proscribed mechanics for strikes/outs/etc. I'm sorry, I think they look awful. If I thought they had a purpose to them, like slowing down people's calls so they are sure they have them right it's one thing. But, a big showy out call on a routine ground ball with the hammer over your head is showing up the runner, IMO. So is the hammer above the head on a swinging strike.

I had some SB guys in my local HS association come back to our mixed SB/BB group from a national ASA clinic, and they learned some things about plate stance I thought were no real good either. As another poster put it, the worst thing they cam back with was too wide a plate stance. As wide as they teach, you are always going to be slow to react on plays because you're not balanced and your center of gravity is not centered under your body. Also, because your legs are so spread, you have to bring your feet closer together to move your body, and that split second of time can mean you are late with being able to get into a position to make a call.

I understand that if you want to do big games, ASA and NCAA will enforce its mechanics, period. It is disappointing that they feel they have to control umpires in that way. Most great umpires are not showy, in either BB or SB. They should be able to use any body language (big or small) to sell the banger or tough call, and use as little body language as needed on the easy routine plays. I look at what I see on TV, and the big dog SB umps are being forced to use body language that does not communicate well. It looks, and feels forced, not smooth and natural.

Not everyone whoi does BB is an MLB follower, I wish the higher ups in ASA and NCAA SB saw that too.

Before criticizing,........ If it's a hammer, is should be over your head so the other players and fans can see it. After all, the mechanics are for them, not the guy standing next to you. Also, if you check the proper mechanics in the ASA umpire manual, you will see the steps for slowing down the umpire.

An overhand on a routine out is showboating and uncalled for assuming it was a routing out.

Then you fellow umpires did not understand what was being taught or the instructor was trying to challenge people to give it a shot. I have never seen an instructor at a school "force" a position on an umpire that the individual could not handle. Does it take work and practice? Sure, just like anything else. Different people are different sizes, so this isn't a "one-size-fits-all" mechanic and everyone knows that. BTW, when moving to a wider stance, umpires are told to NOT place themselves so wide it is difficult to recover.

You know, the only time I've noticed similarity among the umpires working the NCAA's is the routine out. They all have their own overhand or punch, safe, sell safe and their own third strike signal. I have worked the highest level of ASA and a couple of World Cups (SP) and I can tell you from experience that every umpire has their own characteristics, even on the routine calls. Maybe you don't notice is because you are not familiar with it. I am and do.

You can drop the "gotta do it to get the big games" whine because it just isn't so.

Plate gear? I don't wear any.

re: plate gear (ball bags, etc.) as BU.

I was watching a tournament final on Sunday afternoon. It was double elim, and the losers bracket team won the first, so there was an if game. Same crew did both, but swapped duties.

In the second game, the BU (PU first game) took off his plate gear (including the ball bag) except for the chest protector. The PU (BU first game) put on NO plate gear, except for the ball bag. So we had a PU with no gear and a BU wearing a chest protector. Now THAT looked odd.

Indicators as BU? Only those who need something to criticize in order to feel superior (re: small ball board thread) worry about it. If there is anything at all to criticize about the indicator on the field it is looking at it. If you have to look at it to make sure it is correct, you're not paying attention - and that is what you need to work on.

I, personally, am a fan of a uniform set of signals. Those who wish to deviate and use such things as a double fist pump or turn from the field of play to make their called strike three sell are often showboaters looking to be the center of attention on the field, rather than officiate games. Mechanics are meant to communicate, nothing more. As anyone who understands effective communication can tell you, short and concise is the best way. Uniform mechanics achieve this. Often, people who fight this trend in umpring are those desiring to mask their laziness as a "personal mechanic," or those I have already mentioned, the showboaters.

If you want to work as an umpire, you should adhere to the prescribed mechanic, period. And for your information, the NCAA UIP does not mandate any prescribed mechanic for a called strike three. Also, sells in the NCAA ranks do vary, and I have seen a couple of different styles while watching this tournament. As for a swinging or called strike, why should the signal be any different? It is still a strike, no matter what. The only difference should be that you don't do a verbal on a swinging strike.



NCAA, NFHS, ASA all require the BU to have an indicator with them in the field. If you don't, and you are working for any of these organizations, then you are failing to do what you are being paid for.

And personally, I think the BU carrying an indicator should be mandatory (which is another reason why I bring a spare for my partner, should he/she need one). There have been times when umpires, being human, have brain farts and slip up on the count. A player gets injured fielding a foul ball and time is needed to attend to them. A coach calls time during an at bat. We're human, and when these things suddenly happen, we sometimes forget to nudge that wheel another notch. It happens. It shouldn't, but it does. I, personally, want to be able to give the count back to the PU (or F4) without any hesitation if I am asked.

Having an indicator in my hand also keeps me focused on the game, but that's just me, that's just one of my things.

I don't carry an indicat-a-clicker on the bases because its the PU's job to "call and count all balls and strikes..." not the BU's.

(From 2007 NCAA Softball Rules, 15-3(d) ).

So what happens if your partner looses the count? Say f*** you, it's your problem, not mine.

An indicator is a tool of the trade. The crew on the field is a unit. One fails, the crew fails.

And what do you call an indicator that doesn't "click", that "wheely thing"?

I call it "something I need to break open (again), nudge the prongs upwards (again), and put back together (AGAIN!)." :eek:

No... I simply give him the count... you see my memory span is larger than 1 min. I haven't carried the "wheely thing" as BU for more that 5 years, and have yet to lose the count. I suppose some concentration is needed, but that's fine with me, I like to stay in the game.

-- NCAA Softball Umpire Manual

The authors must be from Alabama.

Hmmm... what's the brush for on the bases?

Does anybody really care what those with little balls think about softball?

In some ways, the games are very similar, but they're very different in a number of other ways.
I see a lot more of the "out, sh!t, safe" calls in that game as many of them don't have what a softball ump would call great timing - they're too fast.
Didn't we see & hear about one of the major leaguers hosing an uncaught 3rd strike because they don't - or didn't - want to go outside of their own area of responsibility.
On the other hand, I see the baseball folks tolerating a whole lot less garbage from coaches & players before tossing.

One sport's officials can nit-pick another sport's officials all they want. The fact is these are different games with different expectations and different ways of doing things. I don't give a rat's a$$ what a baseball ump thinks of a softball ump's ways of officiating a softball game - the baseball guy's opinion is as completely irrelevant as a softball ump's opinion of a baseball ump's ways of doing things.

So, prescribed mechanics aside, what is so terrible about a BU who is holding an indicator? In my opinion, Mike hit the nail on the head - on the field, we are a team, and we must back each other up when we can. I'm glad that your memory is as good as you say, but it's totally plausible that something may happen where your memory will not be enough. We're human.

By that same logic, BU should never ask PU for help if F3 pulls their foot. Again, we're a team. We can't see everything, we can't know everything, we can't remember everything. The indicator, like a brush or bat ring, is one more tool to be used at our disposal to assist in this process.

BU cleans the pitcher's plate in ASA. Can't speak with any authority on NCAA, but I wouldn't be surprised if that were part of their mechanics.

Form the 2007 NCAA Umpires Manual.

Equipment:
• Black mask and harness. Black or tan pads (black is preferred). Black throat protector if
not built into the mask. Avoid visible advertising if possible.
• All black mask/helmet – a hat must be worn with a helmet (wearing a helmet is discouraged
as it tends to draw attention to the umpire)
• Ball/strike indicator – must be used on plate and bases
• Brush – every umpire must carry one
• Navy blue or heather gray ball bag with no insignias
• Pen or pencil
• Bat Ring

• Between inning mechanics
— Base umpires position is in the grass, 10-15 feet from the line, fronting the plate
— Plate umpire is 8-10 feet from the plate, opposite the team coming to bat
— Pitcher’s plate is swept, only if needed, using the following priority system:
•• The remaining umpire on the infield;
•• The umpire who ends the inning in the middle of the diamond;
•• 3B umpire if both umpires end the inning on the lines

Paul

Maybe it's because you don't have half the issues a BU in softball does. For example, what is the BU's pre-swing responsibilities?

Speaking ASA, and a few others,

In softball, it includes, but is not limited to watching ALL runners remain in contact with the base until the pitch is released, making sure the pitcher's shoulders are square to the plate, both feet are in contact with the pitcher's plate, respond to any count/out inquiries of nearby fielders or base coach, insure the pitcher does not step back off the pitcher's plate during her motion, the pitcher does not leap during the delivery, the pitcher does not replant prior to the release, make sure there is no obstruction when each of the runner's leave the base at the pitcher's release AND THEN you was for a possible check swing among other possible occurances which could happen at the plate.

Baseball's BU's pre-pitch responsibilities:
1) Watch for a balk.
2) Um...
3) Give the GLM signal where appropriate.

Baseball-only guy here, although I worked high school and ASA softball 10 or so years ago.

I always enjoy these baseball versus softball threads. Just shows how different the sports and their umpires are.

I have to deal with pickoffs and balks along with some of the other things you mention.

Further, I do not and will not answer requests for the count. The plate umpire keeps the count. If I were to give an incorrect count as the base umpire, it could result in bad things happening. Someone asks, I simply say, "Mike, what's the count." If the plate umpire loses the count, I'm there for him, but that's the only time I get involved in the count. I really don't care what the count is, to be honest, unless it's 3-2, 2 outs and I can ignore the runners moving.

The day I carry an indicator on the bases or a brush on the bases or a bat ring ever will be the day I know hell has truly frozen over.

Actually, this should be first priority. GLM, fair/foul, catch/no catch.

Is GLM the nice way of saying MILF?

Quite so, sir.

I carry my clicker in my pocket and use it to keep track of outs. I know the count in memory.

Blue pants are not only ugly but a signal the ASA is stuck in the past.

As for the strike call that lasts an eternity it matters not that the verbal call is immediate. The ASA clinics emphasize that the ASA approved signals are to "make sure the fans" understand the call. The fans are the last to know.

Visual and audible strike calls need not be separate

Brokeded



.....................

Pre-pitch...

Irishmafia, a response
 

Thought #6 I have my share of big games, so I don't whine about anything thank you. If I get too old for BB and decide to do SB, I'll let my performance determine the level of games I work.

I do know I have set in Firestone Stadium in Akron for pro SB games, seen a bunch of College SB games in many places, and they look the same to me mechanically. And I remember whne I was doing a lot ofd ASA SB, I know of times when umpires were not allowed to work because they did not have the original ElBecho shirt on. Even though the no-EB shirt looked exactly the same, and was approved by the Postal Service for their uniforms, the umpire was sent home. From what I see things have not changed much since I was doing ASA FP in the early-mid 1980's.

Thanks for the response, I appreciate it.

They arent MLB followers.. I would term them MLB Umpire Groupies (especially many on this board who can even name the crews, their number, and underwear size and lord knows what else)

:D

But many points are well taken.. If you are in the stands and the batter and swung and missed and you are sitting wondering what the umpire called.. not much hope for you.

For a swinging strike .. ASA prescribes that thou shalt stand up, thou shalt not move thou's head whilst thou puts your left hand at your belt and hammer with your right hand..

I do it, I get paid to do it, they want it.. and as the association for whom I voluntarily work certainly have that right..

but its still lame.

BUT>....

The little point strike by MLB umps while looking who knows where is old hat and equally lame.. but at least its voluntary to look so horrible calling a strike.. as opposed to forced to look horrible.

We're supposed to watch for balks?! :eek:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Thought #1, A hammer does not have to be over your head so other players and fans can see it. How many times in a BB game have you seen confusion about whether the umpire calls a person out or safe, esp on plays that are not close?

Yes, it can be confusing, even on television when the umpire simply raises a fist in front of his body. And again, the signals are not there to make the umpire look stylish, the signals are for the fans and remote players, why do you seem to be offended by that point. If you are getting paid to do that job, do it.


Thought #2: I am very familiar with the ASA manual, and the points for slowing down umpires has utility for other sports too.

So what's your complaint. You were the one who suggested that you could understand if part of the mechanic was to slow one down.


Thought #3: I am lost as to what an overhand is, I assume it is a big ringup. I'm not saying a ringup is needed on obvious plays, we all know that. I think the hammer is too showy, when a simple out sign will do.


But you just told us you are familiar with the ASA manual! Make up your mind. And, if you knew the ASA manual, you would also know that the hammer IS the simple out sign.



Thought #4, there were other things too I was not crazy with too, and I won't condemn an instructor for what a student misunderstands or gets wrong. All I am saying is that they came home with stuff I am not sure works well.

A sad part of ASA's local programs is that many have given up on local/State/Metro schools. That means that many umpires go to a National School with limited knowledge. Did your fellow umpires attend any previous schools which would provide them with the basis for attending a NS?


Thought #5, Okay fine, your point is well-taken, my experince is limited. But I do know from what I hear, see, and read on this and other boards that there is more enforced uniformity on mechanics in SB than BB.

No argument.

If I am wrong, I withdraw the comment. Watching the NCAA SB stuff on ESPN it sure looks to me like they are close to the same mechanically, all of them.

Maybe because you are comparing them to what you think they should be, not what they are taught. Besides, what is wrong with people working the same game in the same uniform giving the same signs?

There are many of us, on this board and elsewhere, that have been complimented by teams and fans for our professionalism and ability to work as a team when actually, we may have only met each other 20 minutes before the game.

If you don't care for that, it's okay. You are free to work where you can do it the way you want. That's fine be me, because that's your business. However, you cannot argue with the point that when you do any job, any where, you do it in the manner prescribed by those running the show.


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Thought #6 I have my share of big games, so I don't whine about anything thank you. If I get too old for BB and decide to do SB, I'll let my performance determine the level of games I work.

Go back and check the number of infrequent posters here and on the baseball board that make the reference. To me, that is a whine for those who seem to need an excuse for bad mouthing others. Or is it an excuse for making themselves feel better because they do not have the opportunity to get the national and international games? Most of the posters on here don't go over to the baseball board and mock the manner in which you do things, so why does it seem important for so many to do that to us?

BTW, I worked the little ball for 22 years, mostly youth to JUCO and some as a gypsy. I left the game at the ripe age of 36 because I was bored to tears. There was not challenge. Don't get me wrong, FP softball tends to bore me at times which is why I concentrate on SP. There is more action in two innings of SP ball than what you may see in an entire baseball game.

And let me break some news to you. To work softball, an umpire needs to be in the same, if not better, physical shape as anyone needs to do baseball. If you don't believe it, you are only fooling yourself.

And I remember whne I was doing a lot ofd ASA SB, I know of times when umpires were not allowed to work because they did not have the original ElBecho shirt on. Even though the no-EB shirt looked exactly the same, and was approved by the Postal Service for their uniforms, the umpire was sent home. From what I see things have not changed much since I was doing ASA FP in the early-mid 1980's.

It is called a UNIFORM for a reason. Check out definition at www.m-w.com


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From the 2007 NCAA Umpire Manual(which I am sure you must not own if you don't follow its' guidelines):

"Ball/Strike indicator-must be used on plate and bases."

That's a pretty simple directive.

If you work baseball, yeah.

I don't own one because I don't work Softball.

As far as baseball, my NCAA assignor frowns on carrying one while a BU.

Also, to make the statement that you need to be in better shape to work softball than baseball... I disagree. I know lots of SP umpires who work softball because they can no longer keep up on the big diamond, so that will never hold water with me...

The main difference between baseball and softball...

THe money and enjoyment of working a lot.

I worked 17 games memorial day weekend 14 games last weekend and will work around 12 this upcoming weekend...

just cant do that with baseball. When I work Amer legion which starts next week.. I'll work 1 game on a weeknight.. maybe 2 games a week.

big whup.

Wont do the little league thing (which is over anyway)..

Softball will go through fall ball.

Long after "i dont do softball" baseball umpires are no longer working and spending their time googling up their favorite MLB umpires to pine for .. I'm still working A LOT of games.

I respect a lot of what you write, but there's no way that this is true. Consider the baseball umpire who:

(1) has to take a batter-runner to second or third because the base umpire went out. Plate umpire, of course.

(2) has to cover third on a first-to-third, especially on a hit-and-run. Plate umpire, of course.

(3) has to pivot into the diamond with 90 foot bases and college/pro athletes and having to pivot in front of them. Base umpire, of course.

I work 60-foot bases during Little League tournament season. We work behind the runners, just like softball umpires do. It feels like I am anywhere I need to be in about 5 steps.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I'd rather work 1 good baseball game than 3 softball games. Others feel differently. Whoopee.

Now, I did like working FP when I had decent pitching and fielding. I felt my reflexes had to be a bit better when working the bases, for certain. But I just didn't get enough good pitching and I'd rather work baseball with mediocre pitching than softball with mediocre pitching.

I never made that statement.

Yeah, but you only gotta do that for 1 maybe two games.. with a LOT of downtime between plays while you pretend standing there watching pick off attempts is tiring.

Work softball games for 12 hours straight 3 days in a row in Central Cal heat then post you need to be in better shape for baseball because you have to run a few feet farther for a play at 3B.

Also.. as to mediocre.. earn some stripes and work mens or 18G.. then you see great ball.

I would never, never work 12 hours. But that has nothing to do with my conditioning. I was scheduled to work an NCAA D3 conference tourney this season and I would've had to work 3 9-inning games if we needed to play the "if" game. That would be my absolute limit these days.

I'd prefer working 1 game a day, personally. Again, nothing to do with conditioning, but rather the balance I want in my life.

That is an excuse, not a reason. The field is only smaller in dimensions. The little ball game umpire cuts the coverage area by working inside with a runner on base, softball stays outside, but must still cover the plays accross the field.

Rich,
I think a lot of what you've said also fits the softball game.
Sure, it's a smaller diamond - this means you need to be faster in FP. When doing FP, your reflexes do need to be better on the bases and the timing needs to be better on the plate. Look at the top players in each - the top major leaguers can't hit the top womone's pitching. How do you think those major leaguers would do when facing some of the top men pitchers that I see.
Now the baseball I see is not great and I'm the first to admit that my mechanics are not great - I'll do some high school, Legion, and adult wood bat. I feel like I have too much time to get into position because the ball moves so much slower in BB. It doesn't matter whether it's covering a steal, taking a B-R as far as I need to when BU chases, or taking a B-R into 3rd while I'm BU - the game is a whole lot slower.

If I remember right, Rich - you're out in Wisconsin - right? You've got some really good men's major FP out there, some of the best in the world. Go watch a few of those games and I think you'll see what Mike referred to as needing to be faster to work softball than you need to in order to do baseball.

No different in softball

No different in softball When there is nobody on base. You cut that to swivel and handful of steps with runners on base. Softball is all from the outside of the diamond which means doing the exact same thing in softball on every ball to the OF. Are the players as fast? Yeah, in the equal levels (college/pro) and with only 2/3 of the distance to cover. No argument with the exception of the extra base hit. But you are talking about 11-12 yo. Try working that field with adults playing at the same level of those which you wouldn't even think of working anything less than 90' bases. You might draw a different opinionI agree. The best deal is the high level tournament where you work one game in the morning, one in the afternoon and one in the evening.And if I work FP, I prefer mediocre pitching which often allows more hitting which means more offense which means more plays and action on the field. The 1-0, 20 strike out performances are, to me, boring.

Irish,

I just read your reply to my last post, I am sorry I irritated you. We'll just have to agree to disagree here, and I hope you have some good SB this Summer.

Funny, but I don't seen any indication I offered to show irritation. For that matter, I thought the post showed agreement and distinctive comparisions between the games.