Lesser of Two Evils

[tcannizzo]

I think this question deserves its own thread.

Re: U-Make-The-Call

Sitch: PU overturns BU's call. BU should:
a.) just stand there and continue with the game.
b.) leave the field of play
c.) other (explain)

Seems to me that "b" is the lesser of two evils.
By going with "a":
1. Silence constitutes acceptance. Is this the message that BU should send?
2. BU's credibility and authority have been stripped openly and publicly.
3. It establishes a precedent that would permit ANY umpire to overturn ANY OTHER umpire's call at least for the rest of that game, and into the future
4. The integrity of the game has been compromised. Do you stand there in the face of this breach or make a statement.

I choose not to offer some of my thoughts on "c" as they are all with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight. This was in the heat of the moment of an unbelievably bizarre situation.

IMHO, BU was in a "dammed if you do and dammed if you don't".

U1 didn't do the right thing, but what would the best course of action in case this happens in a future event to one of you?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

I think this question deserves its own thread.

Re: U-Make-The-Call

Sitch: PU overturns BU's call. BU should:
a.) just stand there and continue with the game.
b.) leave the field of play
c.) other (explain)

Seems to me that "b" is the lesser of two evils.
By going with "a":
1. Silence constitutes acceptance. Is this the message that BU should send?
2. BU's credibility and authority have been stripped openly and publicly.
3. It establishes a precedent that would permit ANY umpire to overturn ANY OTHER umpire's call at least for the rest of that game, and into the future
4. The integrity of the game has been compromised. Do you stand there in the face of this breach or make a statement.

Depends, does my partner have the adult liquid refreshments for after the game?

Who is paying for your services, the teams or your partner? The PU is not going to overturn didly without a fight. There will be no problem with my integrity because I will have no problem telling both coaches that I will be happy to discuss any questions they have concerning the play after the game, hustle back to my position and let them feast on my partner. And I'll do it with a smile.

I will not, however, walk out on the teams, nor give my partner the satisfaction of acting the hero.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Depends, does my partner have the adult liquid refreshments for after the game?

Who is paying for your services, the teams or your partner? The PU is not going to overturn didly without a fight. There will be no problem with my integrity because I will have no problem telling both coaches that I will be happy to discuss any questions they have concerning the play after the game, hustle back to my position and let them feast on my partner. And I'll do it with a smile.

I will not, however, walk out on the teams, nor give my partner the satisfaction of acting the hero.

Couldn't agree more.

The game is more imortant than the issue to be resolved later between the umpires.

[NCASAUmp]

I agree with Mike 110%. If I'm PU and I make a call at the plate, I'll be d@mn3d if another ump, regardless of his experience, hollers another call, even if he's right. I say pull the other ump aside, explain that it's still your call, and show your final ruling. If my partner wants to get pissy about it, fine - I still stand firm and let him look like the idiot (because I guarantee you, he will!). If he makes a scene, I just report it to my boss who handles the scheduling.

I've called games with umpires I've downright loathed. Umpires who, upon seeing them approach the field, make me want to turn around and get back in my car and enjoy some refreshments. But love 'em or hate 'em, it's still my duty and responsibility to be a professional umpire, even if others lack the capacity for reciprocity.

I say again - it's not my job, it's my duty and responsibility as a professional umpire.

[tcannizzo]

Some new information here:

I just spoke with the UIC of the tournament who told me that although U1 walked through the gate, the first person U1 went to was the UIC who was only 5 feet from the gate. He said that U1 didn't leave the game. That he had excused U1 from duty and stepped in to take over for U1.

If any of the coaches were to have protested the OUT call by PU, the UIC would have returned the call to the correct call SAFE. But even UIC's do not overturn a grossly mistaken partner unless help was requested in the proper and professional umpiring protocol.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

I agree with Mike 110%. If I'm PU and I make a call at the plate, I'll be d@mn3d if another ump, regardless of his experience, hollers another call, even if he's right. I say pull the other ump aside, explain that it's still your call, and show your final ruling. If my partner wants to get pissy about it, fine - I still stand firm and let him look like the idiot (because I guarantee you, he will!). If he makes a scene, I just report it to my boss who handles the scheduling.

I've called games with umpires I've downright loathed. Umpires who, upon seeing them approach the field, make me want to turn around and get back in my car and enjoy some refreshments. But love 'em or hate 'em, it's still my duty and responsibility to be a professional umpire, even if others lack the capacity for reciprocity.

I say again - it's not my job, it's my duty and responsibility as a professional umpire.

There is a classic story in NBA lore in a game refereed by the late Earl Strom, arguably the best NBA official ever, and Dick Bavetta who was then a rookie.

Story has Bavetta overrulling Strom's call late in a close game.

Strom said nothing and Bavetta''s call stood.

In the dressing room after the game Strom beat the hell out of Bavetta.

[blueump]

I may stand and shake my head over and over again, I may pull him aside and rip his butt, I may even never speak to him at all, but I will NEVER, NEVER, NEVER leave the field!

I'm not there for my partner, I'm there for the players and the game. If my partner is an idiot, it just makes my job harder. Let him look like a fool when he overrules you, but NEVER walk out on your responsibility. This isn't a "I'll take my toys and go home" job!

[tcannizzo]

OK, looking for consensus here:

When PU unilaterally overturned U1's call, U1 should have calmly walked over to PU and with the same calm demeanor as in speaking to an erroneous coach and said, "You do not have the right to make this call, please revert back to the correct call."

Should PU refuse, then U1 should give PU one more chance before calling in the UIC to hold court on the field.

Does this sound right?