Catcher sues baserunner for collision (co-ed ball)
 

Check this out:

Collision at home plate prompts lawsuit
Female catcher sues male baserunner, Atlanta co-ed softball league

I hope they thump this guy. He is the type of person which causes me to fight to find umpires to work Co-rec ball.

It just doesnt happen in SP coed games here due to the no contact at home league rule that says- to score a run, a runner must cross a chalkline (from the plate to the backstop-perpendicular to (3rd to home) baseline) before catcher has possesion of ball while touching plate. A runner touching home, even with no play at home, is ruled out. This is also true in mens 35+, and older leagues....

1..Malicious contact is ILLEGAL. Signing a waiver doesn't make it legal.

2..Why has this slob been permitted to continue in this league AFTER other rough play? She should also sue the league, and its director(s).

Bob

When you play sports, you do assume certain risks inherent to the game. In softball, this would include turning your ankle on a base, accidentally colliding with a fielder, taking a bad hop to the eye, running into a fence, etc.

But a deliberate crash is not an inherent risk. Since rules prohibiting contact were clear to everyone, what this moron did is nothing less than criminal, and I hope he is punished severely.

And what kind of guy crashes a woman, anyway? What is he proving? Does he go home and write in his little book that he scored a run in a co-ed softball game?

Around here, if I saw a guy deliberately injure a woman, I'd grab the cell phone right away and call my pre-programmed number for that township's police, because I guarantee they'd soon be trying to break up a brawl.

In a co-ed game a few years ago, a guy smashed a ball right by the head of the woman pitcher (who is also an umpire I often work with). Next time up he rips one up the middle again. But third time up he nails her in the arm, and she drops to the ground in pain. She was crying when they helped her off the field.

Now where is this guy as people from both teams are tending to her as she lies on the mound? Standing on 1B with his hands on his hips, talking to the 1B coach. Never said a word to her.

According to the article, she is!

California legal lesson
 

I haven't researched this in several years, but in California, the leading case on this issue was (and presumedly still is) as follows:

During a Super Bowl halftime informal touch football game including women and men, defendant ran into plaintiff from behind, knocked her down, and stepped on her hand. Defendant continued running until he tagged a ball-carrier hard enough to sprain her ankle. On the preceding play, plaintiff had complained about defendant’s excessively rough play. After several surgeries, Plaintiff's finger was amputated.

California Supreme Court said: ‘A participant in an active sport breaches a legal duty of care to other participants-i.e., engages in conduct that properly may subject him or her to financial liability-only if the participant intentionally injures another player or engages in conduct that is so reckless as to be totally outside the range of the ordinary activity involved in the sport. Defendant was, at most, careless or negligent in knocking over plaintiff, stepping on her hand, and injuring her finger. The conduct is not even closely comparable to the kind of conduct-conduct so reckless as to be totally outside the range of the ordinary activity involved in the sport-that is a prerequisite to the imposition of legal liability upon a participant in such a sport. Defendant was, at most, careless or negligent in knocking over plaintiff, stepping on her hand, and injuring her finger. Accordingly, this case falls within the primary assumption of risk doctrine, and thus the trial court properly granted summary judgment in favor of defendant.’
Knight v. Jewett (1992) 3 Cal.4th 296

Interesting post, Paul L.

The court is probably right in that case, deplorable as the macho man's behavior may have been. Stupid judgment isn't necessarily reckless disregard. Like the guy who kept lining balls back at the woman pitcher. Stupid, but not criminal. The pitcher knows that line drives up the middle can happen.

But a deliberate crash—specifically prohibited by the rules and obviously dangerous even to a fool—may well be over the line.

Of course, by the time the lawyers are through, it will look as if the girl was at fault.

"Reckless disregard" is an interesting legal concept. Every summer we have cases of parents leaving their children in the car resulting in the child's death due to heat. I heard a radio discussion between two lawyers on whether these parents could be charged. It seemed to boil down to whether they acted with "reckless disregard." If a parent forgot the child was in the back seat and went into work, for example, that would not be reckless disregard; that would be a tragic accident. On the other hand, if the parent left the child in the car and went into work knowing the child was there but assuming the child would be OK, that WOULD be reckless disregard.

Applying what seems to be the principle there, if the runner was only trying to score and lost his balance and crashed into the catcher, that would be a tragic accident. If, OTOH, the runner crashed into the catcher in an attempt to knock the ball loose, that would be reckless disregard. Crashing into a fielder while running full speed to knock the ball loose is prohibited behavior, not normal to play in recreational softball, and for the runner to do this showed reckless disregard for the safety of the catcher.

Seems like a sound argument to me. That probably means it will be tossed out by the court.

For those of you who think common sense may actually rule over law, remember that just because some court in Cali says it's this way doesn't make it so everywhere else. For instance, there was an interesting ruling just a couple years ago from the US Ninth Circuit Court concerning the Pledge of Allegiance. That is one of many from courts both state and federal in Cali that have not made their way east of the Colorado Riverborder with Nevada (i.e. the real United States).

Meanwhile, this ******* should be strung up...or have a certain troll umpire his games -- but that would probably fall under cruel and unusual punishment.

Live from the Gulag of Washington State,

"Grober had been ejected from a game two weeks before for aggressively running into the third baseman, court documents show. The umpire claimed it was the first time in 15 years he had felt compelled to take such an action."

Wow. I wonder if that's a 15 year vet where this was only his first ejection or whether he has over 30 years experience and just hasn't done any in the last 15 years. Either way, wow.

there was an interesting ruling just a couple years ago from the US Ninth Circuit Court concerning the Pledge of Allegiance

People who participate in this forum but do not follow the decisions of the various U.S. courts should know that the Ninth Circuit is routinely overruled by the U.S. Supreme Court, often without comment. (In other words, "You're so pathetically wrong that we won't even go into it.") This has been going on for decades.

Doesn't this the court whose jurisdiction includes Northern Cal?

That would, in fact, be the Ninth Curcuit Court of Appeals.

I wondered the same about a fight breaking out. I work in a coed league and many of the players are married or dating. I couldn't imagine not defending my wife if she was pitching and some idiot hit 3 rockets at her.

I have played some co-ed softball. Hated it but played. We had a guy crash into our female shortstop (who is probably the best player on the team) while she was waiting to catch a fly ball. I thought the field ump was going to have to be restrained. He was furious. A few innings later, same guy on 1B had the ball stuck in his ear on a double play attempt. Field ump called batter runner out for the interference. I was on the bench just thinking to myself,"I have to go to work tomorrow this is a Sunday afternoon softball game and people are trying to hurt each other. I no longer play.

I couldn't imagine not defending my wife if she was pitching and some idiot hit 3 rockets at her.

Her husband was in fact playing in that game, but in the case of the line drives he didn't do anything. He's no shrinking violet, though: in the last game of the season he challenged a wisea$$ opponent (an ump in my association, no less) who had done some dirty crash or said something or other. So much of that garbage happens, I can hardly keep it straight from year to year.

In that township's co-ed championship game that year, I as BU watched the PU toss a whiner who popped up for the second-to-last out of the game after arguing about a high pitch. The whiner works for a big insurance company—in the same office as the PU who tossed him.

I'm trying to reconcile a furious BU and an un-ejected runner. I think I'd have restrained my fury, but ejected him without worrying about it. Surprised an enraged umpire didn't toss the player.

The guy should have been warned about his behavior on his prior ejection, and banned at least for the remainder of the year on the last collision with the woman catcher.

He absolutely should be held liable for the physical suffering he caused that women. He blatantly violated the rules of the league, and in the process of violating those rules, caused a serious injury. That's definitely criminal behavior...

You seem to be a pretty good armchair attorney. What's your hourly rate?

:D

I'm still finishing law school (going to night school). How'd you know?

First time he's had to eject someone in 15 years? You're right... Where has he been? Back home in WI, I had to toss someone almost once a week. Cursing at players, nearly starting fights... All in the name of "good evening fun."

But you get these idiots who watch the Majors do it all the time and think, "hey, that's how you get it done." Personally, I think they should eliminate collisions, take-out slides and phantom tags from the majors. Collisions and take-out slides are the cheaters' cheap way of getting what they want at the expense of another's livelihood (how many shortstops have had to retire early because some idiot kicked out their kneecaps?). Those being gone, phantom tags wouldn't be necessary, bringing the game back to how it should be played.

Kids in little league watch these players get away with it, then emulate the behavior on their local fields. They later grow up and pull these kinds of stunts in co-ed softball games (how many times have we watched a slow-pitch player and said, "I'll bet you my next paycheck he played baseball?").

Throw the book at this moron. Absolutely no call for that, and I don't tolerate it on my field.

how many shortstops have had to retire early because some idiot kicked out their kneecaps?

I can't think of any offhand. And except for the Rose/Fosse incident, I can't think of a truly damaging crash or takeout slide, either. But maybe I'm wrong. And I don't know what happened during the Cobb era.

In terms of phantom tags, professional baserunners, as opposed to kids, know the difference. What pro is going to be suckered by a fake tag? Further, purely phantom tags solely for the reason of messing up the runner—such as after a foul ball—will be remembered and punished just like dirty slides and other violations of the unwritten rules of the game.

This may bother some people, but I have always felt that at higher levels of play, a fake tag is not unsportsmanlike when it accomplishes a strategic purpose. Example: R1 stealing 2B, pitch gets by the catcher. F6, whether by covering 2B or reaching as if for the ball, gets R1 to slide into 2B and thus reduce his chance of making 3B. If I'm the runner, I wouldn't think anything of F6 faking a tag. Even if I fall for it, I simply slide. Shame on me for not looking at the ball or watching the coach.

Kids, of course, are another story. When I played in the 1960s, takeout slides were legal in high school (so was crashing the catcher), and it was right that they were legal. Everybody wore metal spikes, too. (How many players did I see injured by metal spikes? Zero.) But the situation has changed—kids no longer spend their summers on the sandlot. Today, it is better that such slides are not legal.

Actually, Jim Gantner, a well-respected second baseman for the Milwaukee Brewers in the 80s, had his knee completely destroyed by a take-out slide. Thus, I believe that take-out slides are completely bogus, and I toss out any SP player that makes an obvious attempt to employ one.

Referring to "phantom tags," I wasn't referring to "fake tags" as defined by the ASA rule book. What I was referring to was the shortstop or second baseman sweeping his foot behind the base for the force out, setting them up for a better throw to first for a double-play. "Phantom tag" might be the regional term for such a play. Sorry about the confusion, but I think my explanation might clarify my previous statements about my distaste for them. Tag the friggin' bag, dummy! :cool:

I think most people would call that play a "neighborhood play."

Nope, phantom tag it is.
And it has been since I went to the pro school so many moons ago

"Phantom tag" might be the regional term for such a play.

I did think you meant "fake tag." My mistake. In New Jersey, the "phantom tag" is indeed called the "neighborhood play," but of course Noo Joisey has its own unique terms (and pronunciations) for many things, including its capital city, Tret'n.

In my region:

Fake tag - defender simulating the execution of a tag on a runner while not in possession of the ball.

Phantom tag - defender sweeping glove w/ball in front of base without actually tagging the runner, yet getting the out call.

Neighborhood play - a defender executing an attempted force out, or an out at 1B on the BR, who either receives the ball after losing contact with base or throwing the ball prior to contacting the target base. Often, just a passing sweep of a foot by F6 on and attempted catch and release toward F3 to complete back end of a DP.

Just to clarify: fake tag and neighborhood play are the same here as in Delaware. But we don't seem to use the term phantom tag. At least I don't recall hearing it.

But here we play catch or have a catch,while in Maine they play pass and in other places they play toss.

I've also heard SP players whining, "Come on, Blue, that's a Delaware strike," but I'm not sure exactly what that means. Maybe that they think the pitch was "deep" (over the shoulder).

Any of those called with a double fist pump? :eek:

Had a neighborhood play opportunity the other day. If second base had a foot high pile of dog dung, the SS wouldn't have been able to smell it. Of course I do my dead level best, somehow remembering to do the off the base signal first before the safe signal. Amazing how when you remember to do those "other" signals (off the bag, pulled foot, etc) before the safe signal, the amount of dog dung coming from the dugout is greatly diminished -- even in men's slow pitch.

I'm with you on that one. I don't allow phantom tags on my field to set up a double-play. The rules say contact the bag, so touch the darned thing! This isn't the pros, you know... :cool:

The impression I've gotten from keeping up with this story is that the case is in civil court, not criminal.

That's b/c there's more money to be had in civil court...