Strike Zone - How to call
 

I know this is controversial but I still have to ask; besides it is winter even in SoCal and this is a good time for this question.

A couple of years ago an umpire friend mentioned that ASA talks about a ‘currently’ called strike zone in their spring classes. Last year it seemed like the zone moved up to two balls above the knee and was widened to the outside allowing up to two balls off the plate on the outside corner.

Also, I have heard a non-ASA umpire tell a coach, I was not involved in the game, that “the strike zone is whatever I call”. This happened after 3 or 4 bad (IMHO) strike calls in a row, and the coach riding the umpire. Certainly the umpire was justified in reacting to the coach. Once you get this far with an umpire, you deserve what you get. However, the umpires statement got me thinking.

Finally, we have this umpire in our area. He is a really great guy. Has been involved in the game for near 50 years; is coming up on 70 years old; still volunteers entire weekends to umpire games; and he still calls an awesome game. All of us can only hope to have his resume and continued involvement when we get to his age. One thing, he cannot stand it when one team beats another by a lot of runs. He asks the score every inning (too old and losses track), and when run differential is 5 runs or so, you will see the strike zone change significantly. The winning team will get squeezed and the loosing team will get opened up. If the score happens to tighten up, then the old strike zone returns. Sometimes you get a new zone inning after inning. This has been going so long; only new people bother getting excited. Personally, I do not like his efforts to control the game because it confuses the young hitters, and that confusion can carry into other games. So far he has not changed the outcome of a game.

Of course as a coach/batter/pitcher it is a part of the job is to recognize the strike zone and work on adjusting. That has been part of the game for 200 years
(http://www.baseball-almanac.com/arti..._history.shtml). The part to me that is off a bit is that the ASA rule book is exact in stating the location of the strike zone. It really provides no room for adjustment. Yet ASA, I believe, teaches adjustment of the strike zone year to year.

STRIKE ZONE. When a batter assumes a natural batting stance adjacent to home plate, the strike zone is that space over any part of home plate between the batter’s:

• (Fast Pitch Only) Arm pits and the top of the knees.

• (Slow Pitch Only) Back shoulder and the front knee.

When MLB actually changes the strike zone, they do it officially in the rule book. We do not allow the difference between what is called on the field and what is in the rule book in any other area of the game.

Few questions:
How should the strike zone be called, per the rule book or with allowances? Should ASA (or any association) actually be making a rule change to adjust the strike zone?

In calling balls and strikes,it is generally most accepted to bring the pitch down or up into the strike zone, and widen it out, making sure to give a good corner. The bench and spectators can see whether the pitch is too high or too low, however, they can not tell whether it passed over the plate.

The strike zone IS whatever is called! You just gotta be consistant. A 10U "C" class rec strike zone ain't gonna look like a D1 zone. I had a JV game about 2 months ago where niether team had a pitcher. The coaches tried everybody. In the second inning, (we only got in three) when a batter came up I would tell them if you can reach it with the bat, you better swing because I'm calling it! Very few were "reachable" even on tiptoes!

There has to be some lattitude given to the umpire. After all, balls and strikes are a "judgement call" The definition that ASA gives works, but it is the umpires judgement as to where the ball crossed, and also what is a "natural batting stance?" There are also some games where the coaches will ask to open the zone (story above).

A good strike zone (IMO) will also not be learned nor dictated by a book. Guidelines may be drawn, but a good strike zone will only come with experience, and much self evaluation.

You said about the old guy---"So far he has not changed the outcome of a game."---- sounds like he may have a pretty good grasp!

I think you will get consensus on "Less Filling" vs "Tastes Great" sooner than you will ever get consensus on this issue.

Recent thread on the topic.

I've had a few JV games just like that. The only thing I would add is that between innings, before I change the strike zone, I will go to both coaches and tell them to warn the girls that the strike zone is going to get bigger and to swing at anything close.

The coaches have always appreciated this and I've never had a problem.

Maybe, but I don't like what he said. All that I've found necessary to say is, "Coach, are you aware that arguing balls and strikes is against the rules?" That will usually put an end to it without the antagonism and bravado of your friends response.

IOW, he cheats to to help the struggling team. Personally, I wouldn't call this "an awesome game" calling technique. My issue is not his opening up of the zone, but the opening for one team and squeezing for the other. Why limit this favortism to just the strike zone?

He's been doing this for 50 years and NEVER changed the outcome of a game? I ain't buying it.

Both you and Davey Johnson need to work on your math.

The rule book provides a reliable, consistent point of reference for the umpire, and then the umpire manual instructs how to interpret the rule.

Year to year? Really?

I guess you don't actually watch too many MLB games.

Really? Don't you see this variation in just about all of the judgment calls?

Per the rule book with the official interpretations, training, and experience. It also needs to be adjusted to the age and skill of the players, but any adjustment needs to apply to both teams in a given gameNo need, IMO.

I'd say I agree with much of Dakota above..

I do change my strike zone for skill level.. for instance, in the early part of the year I am working a rec league and I wont be as tight as I will be when I start working the 16 and 18 A/G travel ball/mens FP.

I'd say at the upper levels, For ME, I've found everyone is more appreciative of a tighter strike zone (ie. less trouble).. if you are ringing up people at a arm pit high pitch a storm is coming.

To lay out every aspect of what I do is probably long and boring.. but I do adjust a little on the 3-0 .. 0-2 , but I dont think I do it as much as other umpires I see. "Adjust" may not be the right word.. perhaps - less willing to give the marginal in those instances.

I dont change my zone based on score/batter/pitcher once the game is started. Any decisions I make as to how I will call a game are made pregame/pre tourney - then I try to stay consistant. I do believe a coach/pitcher/batter need to be able to "work" - to do that they need their umpire to be in consistant in what they are calling so they can make the appropriate adjustments.

In general, If forced to describe my zone - I give some outside, will call the knee, tight on the inside, about a softball and 1/2 above the belly button high.


While the rulebook lays out one strike zone rule, then the POE changes it a little, and the clinics may even alter that alittle more.. I think it is a "right" of the umpire to develop a zone for himself within reason, then his duty to stay consistant with that for the game. If he/she learns something knew/wants to try something different.. try it out on the next game.. and continue to grow and develope their strike zone..

i.e. it is not an exact science. It is a learned skill.

Whatever you decide to do, just be consistent with it. No matter what the score, what inning, what count, be CONSISTENT. A pitch that is called a strike should always be called a strike, not called a strike only if one team is ahead, or the game is getting late. About the only time I would ever change my zone in a game is if both pitchers are struggling to find to zone, then I MAY open it up a bit to try to get them into a rhythm.

No matter how awful a coach thinks your zone is, if it is consistently awful, a good coach and team will be able to adjust.

What is the big thing some umpires have about demanding the pitcher to be perfect by enforcing a tight zone.

We all know umpires that will tell you they make the pitcher throw through a tight zone. My question is, why would they do that?

Hell, I'd rather see the batter use that expensive piece of equipment instead of standing there and polishing it on their shoulder strap.

Don't rush the season. It's not winter until Dec. 21st.

Bob

This morning in my part of SC it was 20 degrees. Yesterday it was 22 degrees but with a strong wind so the wind chill factor made it 15 degrees. Tomorrow morning it will warm up to 31 degrees. The book definition may be Dec. 21st but it is winter now!

Straw poll:
 

Which most closely describes you?

a.) Pitcher's Umpire
b.) Hitter's Umpire
c.) Other (explain)

Generally speaking..

I have found for me a tighter zone is the path of least resistance. No way do I have a "tight-coffee can zone" - but in general terms, if you sit down batter after batter (as I have done) with a wide zone you have more trouble (ie complaints/whining) than if you squeeze a little. I think people have their mind trained to MLB - so a little lower is fine.. high stuff, no way - that ticks people off.

A little outside is fine.. if you let the good pitchers jam them inside or work these tough to hit areas, they will stay there all day and its counter productive to the "bat on the shoulder" argument; which I tend to agree with. Generally, a looser zone with good pitchers doesnt mean they will be more hittable, it just means you will get more foul balls and called 3K IMO.

Dont construe this to mean me advocating a "tight zone" .. but more arguing against a real loose zone, a little tight.

I've tried all kinds of zones working this or that and for me, I think erroring on the side of the tighter zone is better than just ringing them up. I've not found at any level above rec league that a loose zone = more hitting. Good pitchers figure it out quick and dont give that batter a dang thing to hit.

I'll give you an example that pops to mind.. Marissa Drewery who just signed with Cal Bears from the Sorcerers/Oakdale HS who I have umpired a few times.

That girl works it low inside and outside.

You'll see it on TV I'm sure. She is already virtually unhittable and its pretty rare to even see a hit. If I gave her that low inside by having a loose zone, that doesnt mean you suddenly have batter that can hit, it just means shes going to pitch in that unhittable super low inside spot all day.

I wasn't referring to calling the rulebook defined strike zone, I was referring to the umpires that force a pitcher to put the majority or entire ball over the plate.

However, if a team rather strike out and bicth (sp intentional) instead of starting to swing at the pitches you are calling strikes, the bench is just where they belong. "Whining" in not part of "playing the game."

Your batters show you their belly button every at-bat?




;)

Thats not how I guage it.. I was just being polite ;)

Here's something that works for me...

Get strike one! On a no-strike count (independent of the number of balls), I'm looking to call a strike if possible. Once the hitter has a strike, she is much more likely to swing the bat. The game goes more quickly (and I rarely catch grief from the offense for borderline pitches that are called strike ONE).

I know I'll miss some pitches during each game -- but I try not to miss strikes. :p

And what is wrong with that? Why punish her for being a damn good pitcher and being able to hit her spots? If teams are whining then they aren't very well coached or good.

One of the first ever fastpitch games I did I had a great pitcher working. She was throwing a great tailing fastball that was starting inside, almost at the batters and tailing back late over the plate, usually just above the knees. I was calling the pitch all day and the hitters weren't happy about it. I had the sighs, the jumping back as the ball crossed the plate, the throwing the head back after I rung em up, everything. About the fifth inning after I rung up about the seventh batter looking on the same pitch I hear to coach shout out "jesus christ" and I see him starting to walk to the plate. (he was coaching third) He gets about halfway to home, stops and then yells at his dugout, "He's been calling that pitch all damn day, start HITTING it!" The sixth inning, they made the adjustment and started swinging and hitting the pitch. That's what GOOD teams do, not sit there whining about a loose zone.

I guess I have always been of the opinion of if a pitcher can hit that low and in spot, or low and away spot, why should I take that away from them just because it is a tough pitch to hit?

(forgot to mention this was a college play-off game)

I had a game a few years ago where the pitcher was throwing an almost unhittable strike and she was not anywhere near overpowering these hitters. RHP throwing a curve that would see about 1/3 of the ball catch the front ouside corner (RHB) and break hard outside. My observer told me that I was going to get some low marks on the strike zone, until he finally moved behind me and saw about what I saw. The batters never did move up in the box and this pitcher probably had 13+ KO's.

A day later, the same teams played and the same pitchers threw. This time, the curve was not working as well AND the hitters moved up. The pitcher who won a day before got 8-runned.

Argodad said he's always looking for Strike1. Me, I don't care about the count, I want a strike. Call the borderline pitches strikes - I find that far more survivable than calling borderline pitches balls.

I've found that the higher the level of play, the more exact or precise you must be in your judgement. So, a borderline pitch in HS ball is not anywhere near being a borderline pitch in men's majors.

One of our board posters works the pro game. There, they want the entire ball in the strike zone - or so I'm told by some of those who regularly work those games. Different levels of the game have different expectations of the officials who work the games.

Because, if I called it a ball - I didnt consider it in the strike zone.

Thats why.

The NPF asked that we make the whole ball be above the knee and definitely call the letters (shift the zone up more to the definition), and the ball actually cross the corner (not the whole ball just tighten up the corners). The reasoning was to try to force the pitchers to be more hittable and potentially add offense (I don't know if it worked).

I do agree that different levels have different expectations, but I believe it is more in the consistency than the actual zone. In fact, in general and IMO, the higher the level - the less the location of the zone matters because both offense and defense will adjust to your zone, just stay consistent so they know the zone. I find that it is in the rec leagues and JO where players are less knowledgeable that they expect the definition zone and are not of the ability to recognize consistency because they have two zones, one for their offense and another for their defense.

I do adjust my zone for the level of the game. For me, the younger/lower levels see a more complete zone (pits to bottom of the knees, roughly box to box) because the pitchers struggle and are not overpowering. As the game gets better, I lower the zone slightly (about a ball on top and top of the ball-top of the knee) and tighten up the corners (half a ball off the plate inside and a full ball outside).

I will guage responses early in games in leagues I am not familiar with and try to adjust to what they want called/are used to having called; they are paying the fees, after all.

Sorry but what is NPF? Thanks in advance.

National Professional Fastpitch or similar.

Thank you.

Random thoughts - in no particular order:

Most everyone agrees on basics. There are different interpretations on the strike zone - everyone has their own. I have noticed that the higher the level the lower the zone needs to be. If you call a high strike in college you'll get crushed. Consistancy though is the key to survival as an umpire. I've seen bad umpires get away with being bad because they are consitantly bad - for both teams.

Yes, the zone is different for each level. I've also had some JV type games that need what we call an S-10 strike zone (if they can put it in the bed of an S-10 it's a stike). The coaches know if their pitcher is horrible and probably want to be out of there as bad as or worse than you.

I also want to get a strike on the first pitch. It's the mediocre pitchers that drive me nuts because you never know what's coming! Just get it close. All that having been said, I'd much rather be behind the dish - even in a bad game than on the bases.

This is a myth. The "letters" is a nonexistent parameter.:)

Reminds me of the research I did last year which established that the letters are always below the armpits. :rolleyes:

Yes, they are, but the real question is "how far" below the armpits are they?

If you want to see it done right, check this out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E4sn...elated&search=

Enjoy!

I know her
 

Well not personally but I was suppose to do the bases for one of their playoff games last year. They rearranged the schedule so I just watched her and did another games in that bracket.

Apparently she tweeked her ankle in early round game, Cal coach watching, and big hoo ha broke out over continuing to play her.....

Why in the world did we rebirth this 3-month old thread with an off-topic post?

Because that's what we do!:D

Insomnia
 

Cause I go through bouts of insomnia.

So, we're your standins for Honest Abe and the beaver? ;)

Good Intentions
 

Yes you are the insomniacs dream come true. My wife even approves of my visiting this site. Well I actually started searching threads for slowpitch stuff. I have my first slowpitch games tonight and don't want to be a complete clown. The Lincoln dude is cool but that beaver well makes me a little uneasy sitting there with those choppers of his.....:eek:

If beaver was the cause of your insomnia, I don't think you would be spending time here :rolleyes:

It may be insomnia - but whattaway to go..................:D

Strike Zone
 

I have been umping for 23 years now, although never had the delight to ump in the USA yet (that all changes end of July) and the one main rule that I have learnt is consistency. Be consistent with the zone and no one coach is going to bait you. As per JV games and the like, yeah sure help the pitchers if it gets to that, I do when i umpire JV games in London, but I always let the coaches know that I am going to help the game!

Just wait til I see the originator of the post this weekend.

"Hey coach, thanks a lot. You know that post about the strike zone from last year? We're still talking about it...and you wonder why folks seem to have a different interpretation of the strike zone."

OK, but how are you going to explain the beavers? http://smilies.vidahost.com/ups/pezhed/beaver.gif

Sheesh
 

I was trying to stay away from the whole beaver thing, well not forever but that morning.

Anyway I help coach a Girls Junior college tennis team. One of our big rivals has a mascot named the Beavers. Somewhere along the line our girls , during their pre-match chant, have been saying "Eat the Beavers." Now the head coach and I seem to be the only ones who are getting it cause the girls apparently are clueless to what the saying means......Or maybe not :p

We tried to think of a way to approach them without getting fired, sued or put in jail. Haven't come up with a way yet so 2-3 times a year we get to hear at a Womens college tennis match "Eat the Beavers". ;)

College age? Sure, it's innocent. You betcha. :cool: :rolleyes:

Wow!!! This thread has really been hijacked. From a strike zone discussion, to insomnia, to a discussion about beavers, to college age girls. It is starting to sound like one of those spammers we all hate to see on here has found a way to get his spam across....legally! :eek: :D

I am an innocent virgin
 

I tried to stay focused on Honest Abe but Irishmafia and Dakota dragged me kicking and screaming into the whole college girls/beavers deal. :rolleyes:

I am a victim of their animal foused minds. :eek:

You can't rap3 the willing... :D

Trust me on this...the person who made the OP would be DELIGHTED to see it turn this way.

A moose once bit my sister.

No realli! She was Karving her initials on the moose with the sharpened end of an interspace toothbrush....

Having worked in women's college athletics the last couple of years....I'd say they know EXACTLY what they're saying.

Yeah, and men go to Hooters for the wings, not the breasts!!!:D

There are some places where that would be considered "soliciting" and I ain't talking magazine subscriptions here.

It's the truth
 

Believe this or not......today we play the ....Drum roll please......the BEAVERS. :D We are playing them at their house. We are the heavy favorites. Might be the last chance at beating the Beavers this year unless they make the playoffs.......

Then we would play with them at our house......:eek: