Think I missed One - Obstruction at 1B
 

Can you call obstruction at 1B if there is a fielder behind the safety base that causes the runner to slow down?

Tonight in a 12B ASA Tournament had grounder to 1B, 2B covers 1B but 1B decides to take it. 2B moves over behind the safety base while 1B tags the white base on a close play before the B/R touches and I call her out. The B/R slows down due to 2B being behind the safety base, maybe 2 feet. She would have run over the 2B had she continued through the base. I think I should have signaled obstruction and awarded her 1B. I haven't reread the Obstruction rule tonight but would appreciate comments.

If a defensive player, without the ball, caused a runner to alter her chosen path to the base, you've got obstruction. So, yeah, it does sound like you missed that one.

As long as the slow down was before F3 touched the base for the putout.

Is it possible to obstruct a retired runner, Cecil? I may have read that differently, but I was sure our original play description had the runner slowing before the out, so I saw no need to make that point.

1) I didn't add that point for you, as I always assume there are some newbies reading.
2) To me, the OP sequence "1B tags the white base ... before the B/R touches ... The B/R slows down" was unclear about which happened first.

But the OP also stated "on a close play," which would have me believing that if the B/R hadn't slowed down she would have probably beaten the play by F3. Which brings us back to Steve's original post.

Unless she slowed down after the "close play". :)

I guess the OP could clarify the OP, but then we would have to find another.
I'm just making the point that the effect on the runner only matters if she isn't already out when she slows or otherwise alters. If she was past the base or already out and then slowed down because of F4, it's not OBS.

You guys are funny but it's still vivid in my mind - she slowed down right before the 1B stomped the white base. I believe she would have been safe, and I should have called the obstruction.:eek:

MIke,
That's about what I thought you meant in your original post. Now that yo're sure what the call should have been, how will you handle this the next time?

having coached 10 years I usually know what is right upon reflection or can ask in this forum thanks to you guys, it's doing it as it happens that is the challenge, i never thought it would be easy and hopefully I will get it right the next time - did 4 games the next day to complete the 10U bracket for the tournament though no similiar play

What the heck was 2B doing over there anyways? Sounds like a coaching error to me. I personally can't think of an instance where the second baseman (person) would be that close to 1B to cover the bag.

That is, or was, a standard mechanic on a ball to F3.

And of course, I agree now, with the sequence clear. :cool:

What planet are you on? F4 covering 1B on a play in the infield? Don't think so, that's F1's job. Even a pop into shallow right field, F1 should be covering 1B if F3 is fielding the ball.

I apologize for hijacking this thread.

I'll take you on here. F4 is absolutley the player to cover 1B. Starts with standard bunt coverage and builds from there.

F1 is at least 42 feet away from 1B (half the distance of the 84 feet between 1B and 3B) and has been taught to assume a fielding position after finishing the delivery.

F4's job on a ground ball to F3 is to back up the play in case it gets by F3 and then on to 1B to cover.

Standard positioning of F4 is about 30 feet from 1B, and while F1 is stationary, F4 is moving towards the ball on contact. This puts F4 at least 20 feet closer to 1B than F1.

There is no way in softball for F1 to get to 1B ahead of F4. I'll bet you a steak dinner on this and I like eating steak on other people's money.

The only catch is that the steak must come from planet Earth.

Every high level game of FP I have ever seen or been a part of, this is exactly how the coverage is handled.

Think you'd better rethink that, Tom. F4 covering 1B is the norm in the games I've seen.

Apparently, the same planet most posters, except you, are on. I'm surprised that with as much softball that is played in ND that you even raised this issue.

Even when playing the SP game at 2B, I would always be heading toward 1B for a possible play on any ground ball to my left.

BTW, where I'm from, the SS always, ALWAYS takes the throw from the pitcher at 2B unless in a very drastic shift taking them into the outfield area.

I'm thinking a littleball guy slithered in here.

two things must happen for obstruction:
fielder doesn't have ball
runner hindered by fielder without ball
you have obstruction here

Better wording; Fielder blocks the runner's path while not in possession of the ball, and the runner does something as a result such as alters her path, slides early, or any other thing that the umpire felt she would not have done had the fielder not been blocking her path.

To resume the thread hijack...

My daughter had a first year coach in rec this year. He tried to tell her that as F1 she should be covering 1B when F3 comes off the bag. She and I both looked at him like he had two heads.

Yes, in fast pitch softball at least, of course F4 covers 1B when F3 comes off of it, bunt or normal.

I think that in fast pitch it would make sense that F4 would cover the bag when F3 comes off to field the ball. My experience has been that in slow pitch this is rarely done. From what I have seen this mainly comes from the fact that the F4s play very deep in SP (often 20 feet behind what would be a straight line from 1st to 2nd) and even the F3s are usually off the line and 10-15 feet behind the bag. This means that not only will the F4 have to cover all the ground from their position to 1st, but also go behind the F3 who is fielding the ball. This coupled with the fact that the F1 is usually backing away from home plate and will be going toward the ball hit toward right field makes this a much shorter run for the F1 than for the F4. For F4 to cover in most of the SP games I've seen they would have to try to go 70-75 feet, whereas the F1 is only having to go 45-50 feet to cover 1st. I've played more games at pitcher in SP than I've umpired (approx. 500 to 300) and I covered whatever bag was left when an infielder went after the ball; whether that was 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or even home if the catcher was making a play. (By the way I played most of those games in North Dakota - but I have seen the same thing done here in Illinois)

It may be done differently on some teams or if the F4 plays shorter, but I don't think it is uncommon.

It's Friday night and I was in the mood for steak. I guess the bet is off since there doesn't seem to be any takers. :mad: They grow cows in ND, don't they?

We raise cattle and we grow crops in North Dakota, we don't grow cows.

Do you eat crow?

If it's prepared properly. :D

I'd rather eat steak than see you eat this...:p

http://www.kojinshugi.com/wp-content/crow.jpg