tag on batter/runner

[shipwreck]

Had a game last night in which I was the BU. Batter/runner in the 3' running lane and fielder fielded the ball and made what I thought looked like a tag even though the tag was made on the foul side of the batter/runner. I called her out. Then after the play was done I went and conferred with the PU if he had seen anything different. He stated that he didn't see anything because he was watching the girl from third touch home, so I stayed with my out call. Is that proper mechanics to go to my partner after I called her out or not? My thinking later made me wonder. If I called her out, I must have seen something that made me think she was out, similiar to if I am PU and I say the batter offered at a pitch and call a strike, I don't then go to the BU and ask if she went. How should this be handled? Dave

[canump]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

Had a game last night in which I was the BU. Batter/runner in the 3' running lane and fielder fielded the ball and made what I thought looked like a tag even though the tag was made on the foul side of the batter/runner. I called her out. Then after the play was done I went and conferred with the PU if he had seen anything different. He stated that he didn't see anything because he was watching the girl from third touch home, so I stayed with my out call. Is that proper mechanics to go to my partner after I called her out or not? My thinking later made me wonder. If I called her out, I must have seen something that made me think she was out, similiar to if I am PU and I say the batter offered at a pitch and call a strike, I don't then go to the BU and ask if she went. How should this be handled? Dave

Dave, If you are 100% sure you saw an out in the running lane by all means call the out and make sure you sell it. It's obvious your partner wasn't quite doing his/her job because they they also have a responsibility on that batter-runner running in the shute, yes they must make sure of the touch at the plate, but there is more responsibility to look after.
If the coach comes to you and asks politely for you to check with your partner thinking maybe he/she had a better angle then by all means go ahead and check ( if you want) but make sure that they are 150% sure that there was no tag before you change your call.
Yes if you call a strike you don't check to see if it was a swing after the fact.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Remember that we don't guess outs. If you saw something that made you think it was an out, call it; but don't then suggest you were guessing by asking for help without being challenged. If asked by the offense, by all means ask; but not on your own after calling the out.

If you are so unsure you plan to ask for help, you need to call "safe"; then ask for help. You guess safe, not out. If you call out, stay with it unless asked to go for help from the other angle.

[archangel]

Sounds like the offensive coach didnt complain about the out call. If you went to PU right after to ask an opinion, you are opening a can of worms. Everyone at that game now thinks you arent sure, and your next call might be interesting...
Wait under after the game, or in later innings to talk w/PU about what they saw...

[Skahtboi]

Rule of thumb, never guess an out. If you saw it, call it. No need for any more input from anyone else. If you didn't actually see the tag, then "safe" should have been the call, and then you can always get additional info from your partner if requested.

[LIIRISHMAN]

Couldn't agree more with my fellow Umpires. Never 2nd guess yourself unless your asked (and nicely too) by a coach. Otherwise your authority will be 2nd guest all game and future games as well.

[shipwreck]

Did I physically see the fielder's glove make contact with the runner? No I didn't because the tag was away from me and I was shielded from the play. The play happened so fast I couldn't get a better angle although I am not sure where I could have went to get a better look even if I would have had time. The proximity of the runner and the fielder and the glove going out to make the tag or tag attempt made me believe there was a tag. I am sure some of you have been the PU before and thought maybe the batter got hit by a pitch but didn't actually see or hear it hit her but know where the ball was heading and used her reaction to getting hit to determine if she did in fact get hit. Dave

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

Had a game last night in which I was the BU. Batter/runner in the 3' running lane and fielder fielded the ball and made what I thought looked like a tag even though the tag was made on the foul side of the batter/runner. I called her out. Then after the play was done I went and conferred with the PU if he had seen anything different. He stated that he didn't see anything because he was watching the girl from third touch home, so I stayed with my out call. Is that proper mechanics to go to my partner after I called her out or not? My thinking later made me wonder. If I called her out, I must have seen something that made me think she was out, similiar to if I am PU and I say the batter offered at a pitch and call a strike, I don't then go to the BU and ask if she went. How should this be handled? Dave

OK Mike, on my screen this is labled as #1 - I do not even see the word "coach" in this post. Was the original post in another thread?

[shipwreck]

Larry, refer to post #10. I wrote post #1 and #10. I am sure Mike is quoting #10. Dave

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

Larry, refer to post #10. I wrote post #1 and #10. I am sure Mike is quoting #10. Dave

Correct.

That is why a poster should cite to which s/he is responding, which is exactly what I did.

[Mountaineer]

I stand corrected. Allow me to offer my most humble of aplogies to Mike!