When do you call "Time!"
 

An out fielder has the ball, the runner at 2nd is off the bag. The outfielder throws the ball into the pitcher, but throws it over her head. Runner advances to 3rd. Pitcher says we had time. I respond no you did not the ball was still in the out field. "Every other umpire calls time."

(Rant on with many bad words) I hate the other umpire! (rant off)

Right now as I write about this three teams are protesting and complaining to the league about my horrible call. That's right three teams two which weren't even involved in the game. So to be sure that I was not a total dork, when do the rest of you call time?

Bugg

As rarely as possible. Softball is a live-ball sport. I'll go innings sometimes without calling TIME once. "TIME!" for no apparent reason is one of my pet peeves. No need for ANY umpire to call time during the scenario presented here.

When the ball is in the circle, under the control of the pitcher, and runners are on their bases. Before that, something might happen, so I don't call time.

Steve, unless you are doing slowpitch, why do you call time in the sitch you describe?

For clarification I do SP and predominately Adult leagues. I call time when the defensive team has possesion of the ball in the infield and when there are no players attempting to advance.

If this is an SP sitch...
 

... and you're working by the 2006 ASA book with no local overrides, point at 8-4-F(2) at your protest hearing. You're on solid ground.

I've had the same thing happen, just no protests. I now warn both managers in the pre-game that I'm enforcing 8-4-F(2) [I always explain what that means]. It works very well.

PS: I've learned not to "hate" the other crewmembers, no matter how much I might disagree with them. I've gotta work with 'em sooner or later. They can run their fields they way they wanna. I'm gonna run mine my way. So goes the one-man system.

What rule are they protesting your misapplication of? Did they protest at the time of the call? Does your league require a protest fee, and if so, how many beers will it buy? If they did not protest at the time of the call (and outside teams cannot protest at all!), then they are not "protesting"... they are merely biitching and complaining, which means nothing.

(partly for mc)
And only if needed:
- sub or CR
- charged conference
- clean plate
- injury
- catcher equip problem
- etc., not just to suspend play

But if I'm working alone, it's automatic if I turn my back on the runners.

We had three procedural things yesterday, possibly all in one game, lots of spectator yelling, all correct by umpires
Get on with your next game, and keep up the good work

I know I'll get ridiculed for this - but I call time every opportunity! If the play is stopped and in the circle and runners on bases - I kill it. I don't want anything happening at this point. If something goes on at that point it's gonna be a headache or someone is going to be put out. Just the way I was taught.

That's assuming that the defense has asked for time. Other than that, I won't normally call time.

If you're calling slow pitch, then you won't get ridiculed.

If you're calling fast pitch, then you are using extremely poor mechanics. Blame your teacher - you were taught poorly.

What are you going to do if a runner takes off for 2nd with the ball in the circle? The rest of us call her out for her illegal act (LBR). You, however, have killed the ball - no out can be called during a dead ball.

Fast pitch softball is a LIVE ball sport. Your desire to not have anything happen after the ball is delivered to F1 is not within the rules. Your desire should not come into play at all.

Sorry if I misunderstood. Since this was your answer to the question, "When will you call time?", it sounded like you were saying that when the ball is in the circle, under the control of the pitcher, and runners are on their bases, you will call time.

Which (unless you're doing slowpitch) you shouldn't do.

Why not call time? Some on this board are aware of my feelings. I believe FP should take from the SP game. Eliminate the LBR and call time when it is obvious all further play, offensive or defensive, is complete.

There is no good reason, other than to steal a cheap out, to keep the ball live. If play is suspended, the umpire, coaches, players, parents, etc. do not have to worry about a runner inadvertantly stepping off a base, the pitcher putting the ball between her knees to fix her hair, the drawing of a circle, whether the foot is on the circle or just outside of it, whether the runner leaned toward 2B when returning to 1B or not, yada, yada, yada.

Oooohh, but what if the runner refuses to go one way or the other and just stands there? You do the same as in SP, kill the play and reset for the next pitch. Don't give me all the old school "what ifs" because they are irrelevant to my opinion and since this is my post and rant, it's the only one that counts.

Rant on, Don Quixote. Tell you what; I will buy you all the beer you can drink at every ASA National Council Meeting and National UIC Clinic every year your version is an approved fastpitch mechanic (call time whenever no active play) and/or rule (no LBR), and you buy the beer at every one where it isn't.

Wooohooo!! Free beer for me for life!!

re
 

[QUOTE=mcrowder]As rarely as possible. [QUOTE]


I agree with mcrowder here. I rarely call time.

I am also not going to call someone out for technically lifting their leg off the base while adjusting their sock and if I am plate and I see the pitcher put the ball down to adjust her hair (or something similiar), I will call time so that the catcher and batter can hear me.

I am a strong proponent of the quick time on the pick off play (as long as the ball is caught and there are no other runners going anywhere). That way, you don't that caught in a situation where a runner, who was already back to the base, either gets up and looses contact or gets pushed off the bag by a defensive player. Just got to be careful not to come up with that time and get caught with another runner trying to grab another base.

Regional 18A Qualifier held this past weekend. R1 slides into third; PU (me) hustles down to make the call, runner is safe. F5 throws the ball to F1.

Coach "Time!". PU ignores, starts back to plate area. Runner has already stood back up, and is dusting herself off.

Coach "Time". PU "Why?" Coach "Can't I have time?" PU "Time!".

Coach to player "See; I told you he had to give me time". PU "That's your conference for this inning, Coach".

Silence; didn't ask again.

When I call ASA SP games, I almost always call time when 'all immediate play is apparently completed'. That is, I wait until runners have stopped running and are at their respective bases, and the ball is controlled by the defense in the infield, in the vicinity of the pitching rubber. (or where the circle would be) Many times, I have had the defense throw the ball away, or drop it, etc. and the runners used those opportunities to try and advance. If I had called time prior to those plays being completed, then I'd would've denied the offense those opportunities. I give both the offense and the defense the opportunity to make plays, and when they're both done, I call time <i>loud and clear</i> to make it clear that I consider all immediate play to have ended. This helps me to keep control of the games.

Last month, I had an R1 about 15 feet down the 3B line when the ball originally hit to right field was thrown to F4 in the infield. F4 kept calling for time, which I did not grant until the defense played the ball toward R1, who then returned to 3B. F4 could not understand why I would not give him time immediately, when he first requested it.

I had another recent game where the defense had chronic trouble getting the relay throws back in to the F1, and several runners took extra bases, as play had not ended. F1 became exasperated and swiped at one throw to him, he ended up knocking the ball away from him, resulting in still more runners advancing.

I have told teams in some games that when I am returning behind the plate and my back is to the infield, that time is 'implied' and all immediate play is considered to have been completed.

At this time in my umpiring career, I only do SP. Whenever play has stopped and the defense had control of the ball (doesn't have to be in the infield or near the pitchers rubber), I call "TIME" with my hands raised above my head. Am I wrong? Not according to all clinics and schools I've attended nor by the book. I'm going to have to reread that section in the book before doing my first FP game which will be in the next few weeks.

Why? In SP, you are supposed to call time. If not, you are not doing your job.

Speaking ASA

Your mechanic is correct, but according to every clinic and school I've attended in my career, the ball should always be in the area usually covered by an infielder while in the possession of a defender.

Well, you and I are opposites in the SP / FP thing. I only do FP.

I won't speak to your SP question except to say from what I have picked up on these boards, no, you are not wrong.

In FP, the ball should not be killed merely because play has stopped. Mike sometimes argues that it makes little sense to keep the ball live after the LBR is in effect and all runners have stopped on a base (see above in this thread for the most recent example). But, the FP rules do not require the umpire to kill the ball then, and he should not. See Cecil's thread called something like "The Advantages of Paying Attention" for one of the examples of an umpire getting himself into trouble by killing the ball too quickly in the FP game.

Unless there is a playing-action reason to kill the ball (foul, ball out of play, etc.) or unless someone requests TIME, I will not kill the ball in a FP game unless I need to tend to some away-from-the-game duties (e.g. answering a coach's question, brushing the plate, etc.). If some runner wants to give herself up by stepping off the base, who am I to stop her? ;)

Never said it would happen, but I'm still waiting for a good reason time shouldn't be called.

Questioned, maybe. Not ridiculed. (I don't know you well enough to ridicule you without it appearing to be a flame... hang around, it'll happen! :D )

My question: Why do you consider an out for a player violating the LBR to be a headache? 1 down, 41 to go!

In the one-man game, it IS a PITA to deal with runners, LBR, etc. while returning behind the plate. I have generally been able to keep my eye on the field while returning to position, and don't call TIME. In the 2-man game, there is no reason at all to call TIME while returning to position.

1 down, 41 to go. ;)

Did you misunderstand my example in that topic which showed that the umpire was correct because of not killing the play?
Not "getting himself into trouble", just the opposite.

Yes. I read your example #1 being that the PU called TIME and did NOT call the OUT. That is ONE situation where Mike would have the umpire do just that (if I understand his position correctly).

No, Mike (and SP in general) would still want the ump to wait for the runner to give up moving.

I guess I better clarify that other topic with :
"the umpire paid attention and did not kill the play prematurely, so she was out!. Not lookibg for a "gotcha", just applying the rule to a true case of its intent. "

Because the game is in progress.
And the runners are not out of breath. ;)

What about the umpire?? http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/sp...vidas/mov8.gif

Because sometimes, some defensive players have not heard me call time for some reason. So I tell them that if they see me returning to go behind the plate, then time must be out.

No more or less than the SP game. By rule, nothing can or is supposed to happen, so what difference does it make?

If anything, it is going to move the "game in progress" along as one partner doesn't need to wait for the other to get into place prior to moving themselves.

Still waiting for a good reason.

Feel free to ridicule! I know you don't know me well but I can promise you I can take it as well as I can dish it out. Heck, I'm a sports official - if I'm thin skinned then I need to find a different hobby!

You didn't like the possibility of 1 of 42? :D

HERETIC!

:eek:

Well, I see the Spanish Inquisition has checked in. :p


http://people.csail.mit.edu/paulfitz/spanish/t2.html

:D Thank you for making my day brighter.

I thought I saw you logged in earlier or yesterday. How are you doing?

Surviving is about all.
I am very tired all the time and too weak to do almost anything.
Still looking for that right doctor who can help me out.
The aneurysm has grown, the valves are leaking etc etc.
I need a major tune up and probably need my tires rotated too.;)

What inquisition?
I just thought it prudent to warn the uniniated to the dangers of listening to a slow pitch guru.:D

Hope you are doing well Mike.

I'm doing fine. My knees, ankles, feet and back are another story.

You take care. Gotta be someone out there that can help

I agree with this.. especially timed tourneys.. I speed up by calling time so we dont have to wait for the outfielder to slowly walk the ball in and other crap.

When all play is stopped.. I call time and say "ok throw the ball in lets go"...
At a play at the base I also call time when the play is over so they dont stand there holding their mit on the runner hoping for some cheap out. "Time - you can get up".. thats the end of it.

I been working a bunch of little ball lately and the thing about baseball I hate is how much time is wasted on BS. I recently had a pitcher throw the ball to first base 10-12 times in a row. I later found out the runner and pitcher had a feud going on. Thats 5-7 minutes of my life I'll never get back...

In the sitch above though.. if the runner was off the bag.. then I wouldnt call time because the runner is still "in play"..

I do call time when its all over, but if play is still on going I dont call or grant time.

Mens FP is real quick to try to call time when its unwarranted.. This weekend I had a situation with a play at first and overthrow and the runner started to advance.. but the ball bounced back to the 1basemen .. so he yelled time.. luckily he made it back and I didnt have to listen to him boohooo (as men in C Div love to cry) about how he had "time" as he was tagged out.

I don't agree with this philosophy at all. It is the player's game. Especially in a timed game, however they want to spend the time is their choice. The game does not end sooner because of these time outs. You may get a few more at-bats, but that is about it. OTOH, you dumb down the game by removing the requirement that the outfielders actually be able to throw the ball in to someone who will catch it. JMO.

I agree with those explaining 'time' called by the umpire at the right time can save a lot of time during a game.(Urgh.. three times.. the word time! :( )
Here in Europe there is a strange philosophy tuned on the 'something could still happen!' wave...
I often see umpires that FORCE the players to throw the ball to the pitcher in the circle BEFORE they can grant time to the defense...
Does this make sense to anybody out there? :eek:

Thanks

The idea that LBR outs or that outs on a play where the runner fails to maintain contact with a base after a play are cheap outs is just plain wrong. We are all calling our game by the rules that we have and the players need to play by those rules. If I deem that the defense caused the runner to lose contact, I don't call the out but if a player can't keep her hand or foot on a base when she is being contacted by a defensive player with the ball, that is just her problem HHUU. There is nothing cheap about it. I personally think a game without time being called after every play moves along faster because the girls get the ball to the circle to stop play.

BTW I do FP only (for the moment) Will be doing Modified in the fall.

But how long are you willing to stand there and stare at a runner lying on the ground touching the base while a fielder holds the ball on her? Once it's obvious that neither of them is going to move and there are no other active runners, call time and get on with the game.

Not sure what HHUU stands for, though.

I agree with Dakota. Do some umps actually allow a defense to call time with the ball still out in the outfield? There is still a lot that can happen with a ball in the outfield!

I have never has a situation where the D player fails to realize the play is over. I guess if I did, I might call time. The O player would probably request it anyway. I just don't view those kind of outs as cheap

HHUU = YER OUT

Never was it suggested that an umpire ignore a rule. I want the rule GONE. I refer to a cheap out as one which was called using a specific rule for a violation that had zero bearing on the game. I'm not suggesting we ignore the rule. I'm suggesting the rule be eliminated.WTF did this come from?

Really? Is that why most SP games are done in 20-30 minutes less than many, if not most, FP games without an active clock?

And you are entitled to your opinion. The LBR is a good rule that holds the baserunners on a small diamond.


Why do you feel it necessary to drop an F-Bomb even if it is abbreviated. Not everyone here appreciates that stuff. I realize that most of the posters here are adults who have heard these things before but that is still no reason to throw out gratuitous profanity. You are an umpire and you were in the military. Self control is a virtue well used on and off the field.


I don't do SP but when I played, there were way fewer pitches thrown since most of us put the ball in play on the first or second pitch. Lots of pop ups and ground outs? Players in a hurry to get to the coolers?

As an umpire, you have the right to call time whenever you want to call it and if that is what floats your boat, by all means call time

The LBR is an antiquated rule that has little to no bearing on, nor does it add anything to today's game. It was introduced when most softball teams were coached with a baseball and old school mentality.

Dropping the LBR and killing the ball at the end of all obvious play takes absolutely nothing away from the game except to the egocentrics that have a difficult time with any change that wasn't their idea.

And I'm still waiting for a good reason why this change shouldn't take place.

Care to elaborate on this? What "baseball and old school mentality" resulted in the LBR being added to the book?

I assure you, my objection to slowpitchalizing fastpitch wrt killing the ball between plays has nothing to do with ego or who is proposing the idea. Now, I have no idea what manner of egos, etc., have to be dealth with on the official rules committees...

Just think "fudge" and you'll be OK. :cool: :rolleyes:

Too many baseball coaches ended up with girl's FP (as least in my area, usually the male gym teacher). Many didn't know the game or how to deal with it or the girls, so they just acted like it was baseball. Baseball is a "live" ball game, but the runners are not confined to the bases and can move about the basepaths as they dare choose. In softball, the runner cannot do this.

The LBR just as well be an acronym for "Leash the Base Runner" as the purpose was to halt all the constant challenges on the basepaths when the pitcher had the ball and to "tie" the runner to the base until the next pitch.

So, this brings me back to my train of thought. If the runner is supposed to stay on the base when the pitcher has the ball in the circle, what can possibly happen?

Can the runner steal? No. Can the runner leave the base early on a pitch? No. Can the runner clear away or smooth an area which may be dangerous? NO. So, why not just call time, move into position and pitch the ball?

You have the same result as if the ball was live, NOTHING!

This is where the "old school" or the "if we change that, the world will collapse" group which just cannot accept change. No good reason it cannot be changed, it just can't because.....because....well, because......

Still waiting for that reason.

For as much as anyone knows, that could be exactly what I meant.

Maybe my mind wasn't the one in the gutter after all?

wrong on count 1
and
irrelevent on count 2.

All the factors combined that one does during a game A) speeds or slows up a game OR you can get more game in in the alloted time.

Do you let pitchers take 5 mins to warm up because its a timed game.. so it doesnt really matter how long they warm up, you'll be there the same amount of time.

In my mind, my methods are proven.. because I talk with other umpires who say "wow how did you get in all 7 innings in a buck 20.. well cuz i hustle their buts up.. thats how. Im hustling, they are hustling.

Pitcher/catcher lag getting out to warm up, you get two warm ups (or whatever).. you slowly wander in from left field because you dont want to throw it while everyone is waiting around.. I call time and tell you to throw in the ball.. you slide into 2nd and the SS is sitting there holding a mit on you.. everyone waiting around.. I call time, tell you to get up.. you wander around between pitches, I tell you to get in the box, lets go! The plays over, we move on.

Dumbing down the game.. well if you say so, but I'm confident the blues like yourself out there more than make up for my dumbing down the game with your strict adherence to the code of "its your game, lag as much as you want, the clocks the same to me".

Of course, in a 7 inning no time game with both of us working 2 fields, i would probably have my hot dog finished and half my soda done and my sandals on relaxing in the shade, by the time you got off the field.. it happens all the time

But you would have the satisfaction of knowing the players you just umpired were smarter than mine.

Fair trade IMO. I'll have to learn to live with that.

If the rule was to halt the constant challenges of cat and mouse games, why limit it to the pitcher? I would suggest that it was not to stop cat and mouse, because you can still have plenty of cat and mouse with the 8 other D players.

Fact of the matter is, the rule is simply a fastpitch baserunning rule, that requires that the runner to be on a base prior to the pitch, and therefore must get to a base when the pitcher is ready to pitch.

Although your questions and answers are correct, there are a number of other things that CAN happen, such as the pitcher attempting to pick off the runner, and possibly throw the ball away. The pitcher can feign a play which means that P is NOT ready to pitch, thereby suspending the LBR, until the P is ready to pitch.

Fastpitch is a live ball game. That is the reason.

Wrong, then you have high school women dancing off the bases like they are playing little league baseball between every pitch. You end up with more throwing errors as D players are tempted to play the runners instead of returning the ball to the circle. This makes for a l o n g e r less disciplined game.

To call time after every play removes the responsibility of the runners to pay attention to their relative position in respect to the ball and would thereby create a sloppy lackadaisical game. All of this would make your game l o n g e r .

BTW any umpire that would not allow a player to address a safety issue on the field doesn't need to be out there. I would grant time for that as I am sure that everyone on this forum would.

Its not a live ball game in the sense that baseball is. When the pitcher has the ball in the circle runners gotta get on a bag.. one there, i call time and take my spot behind the catcher (presuming I've moved to some position outside the plate as is usually the case)..

Its not a live ball game then.. cuz this guy wearing blue, namely me, has called time, in accordance with the power invested in me.

At any rate.. to NOT call time because conceivably leaving the ball "live" could allow a pitcher to attempt to pick off a runner who is standing on a bag.. is kind of laughable.. I'm not waiting around game after game inning after inning for something thats not going to happen in any intelligent ball.. theres a game to be played.

You might be confusing softball with baseball though, dunno.

Why is it wrong to give the runner the responsibility to stay put?
It is a live ball game in the sense that the runners are locked to a base with the liability to be put out if they fail to maintain contact with the base while F1 has the ball in the circle. Why is that a problem? If the D messes up and doesn't get the ball in the circle or F1 makes a play on a runner, another runner can advance. If the O messes up on the LBR they have earned an out. Why is that a problem?
There is nothing cheap about it. The batter is out if she contacts the ball ouside the batter's box. The runner is out if she leaves the base. You just have to stay in the rules defined perameters of your responsibility. Why is that a problem?

Luckily for me ASA says I can call time, so no problem.
:D

OHHHHH

another thing I do.... this one will really chap the hides of the purists im sure..

If they are using a Courtesy Runner.. I dont wait for the C/R to get all the way to the base and do a little "tap in" to change spots.. I tell the runner "you can come off go on in" .. then they typically will do their little hand slap about at the pitchers circle.. as opposed to waiting the extra time for the C/R to get all the way to the base then the former runner to get all the way into the dug out..

They meet half way! Theres 20 seconds saved! woot.

I suppose that if I did like the lonely boredome of sitting around perpetually waiting on players, I would do more baseball than I do.

I am impressed at your etternal vigilance of waiting and waiting, hour after hour, inning after inning, game after game, for the off chance that a pitcher might try to pick off a runner that is not allowed to leave the bag.

thats heart man, good on you.

Well, the next time I talk to one of the co-authors of the rule, Tom Mason, I'll tell him he was wrong.
Yeah, if the pitcher is coached by an idiot. Let me see, the runner is on the base, so the pitcher is going to feign a throw that would allow the runner to possibly advance. Yeah, that's the ticket. That's as ridiculous as all the cat and mouse games played between the catcher and runners. Throw the damn thing back to the pitcher! You want to know where time is wasted, there's a good chunk.

If it were a live ball game, the runners could advance at any time. Well, they cannot and I'm still waiting for a good reason not to call time.

I have no idea what "counts" you are referring to, but you do seem to be intense in your reply.

I would help, though, if you replied to what I actually said, instead of going into a long diatribe, most of which I said nothing about. Here is what I was referring to in your previous post. Maybe you should go back and read it again. Note: you are advocating killing the ball while it is still in the outfield, just because you apparently do not have the patience to wait on the players to get the ball in. THAT is what I do not agree with. As to the rest of your post...

Of course not. There is a rule dealing with this. Don't be silly.

Proven to what? Oh, yeah, we do get to that at the end.
I've never had this happen. I don't let this go on too long, either.Again, there is a rule to deal with this. It is not the same thing at all as killing the ball with the ball in the outfield.

Which is, of course, why we are all out there, to relax in our sandals eating hot dogs and swapping stories.

Of this I have no doubt - this this in your opinion, that is.

You sure are impressed with yourself, aren't you? I don't want to take any wind out of your sails or anything, but the ball is already dead. You're not breaking any new ground here. I hurry them along, too.

Thanks for the kudoes

When a coach asks for time to put in the CR, at least around here, the runner usually trots off as soon as she knows that she is being replaced and we are waiting for the CR to find her helmet.
It almost sounds like you don't call LBR outs but I don't think that is what you would be saying.
Calling time doesn't help anything. IM made a good argument earlier that there is no essential difference in outcomes but there is the potential difference. Keeping the ball live forces the players to concentrate and the umps to watch the action.

If there is no essential difference, why lose the LBR and the potential outs or plays that result from it.
As I told IM in post 50 If calling time floats your boat, then by all means call time.

BTW What is woot??

Your game certainly isn't. Note: YOUR game.

You seem to want to extend the LBR to any defensive player who has the ball and, in your judgment, nothing SHOULD happen at this point.

I'm sorry, but that is not the way the rules are written. I would guess that even such a strong advocate as Mike of changing the rules to kill the ball more like the SP model does not actually DO this presently during FP games. He wants the rule changed, but since it hasn't been changed (if I understand his postings on this subject) he does not unilaterally change them for the FP games he umpires.

IMO, you are abusing your authority by killing the ball so frequently. But, on balance, you do get to enjoy your soda and dog.

Depends on where they are in the "outfield" .. the grass right behind SS/2b is outfield and I will certainly kill the ball if play is stopped, players are on their bags, and we are just in wait mode for the ball to be walked into the pitcher.

If the balls at the fence.. well obviously the plays not dead so its not killed. Ya gotta use common sense when efficiently officiating softball so as to not rob or hurt the plalyers. It takes experience.

I could wait around for pitchers to pick off runners standing on the bag and other stuff like you and others advocate, I just chose to officiate my games more efficiently than that.

Never had a complaint from players/coaches on my methods in those regards either. Few complaints when i shave warm-up pitches because they lag, other than that, people like to see the games move. After a few innings, people get the feel for how its done with me and they are hustling. I hustle they hustle, we get the game done OR play more game in the allotted time.. consistently.

I dont agree that softball is a live ball sport in the same sense that little ball is - the games are night and day in that respect and theres no need to pretend differently.

Softball is not baseball.

Your replies are full of these little dingers. I guess that makes your argument, in your mind, anyway.I never said one word about baseball. Maybe you're the one stuck on this comparison, and, since leadoffs are not allowed, the ball may as well be dead whenever the mood hits the umpire.

Hmmm.. must be why I'm saddled with the responsibility of the plate in well over 90% of the FP tournies I work.. the hot dogs and abuse of authority..

IMO waiting around for a pitcher to pick off a batter standing on bag is laughable.

Even though its within the rules that a pitcher is allowed to try to pick off a batter standing on a bag or in the rules I could wait an undetermined amount of time with the Def player holding their tag on the runner.. I suppose I could even refuse to grant time to the runner holding the bag, and just make them get up watching ever so closely that there isnt a moments separation with the bag.. so as to not abuse authority.. and call time during this precious live ball game

I chose not to. WHen play is done and extraneous activity only remains, I call time and resume my spot behind the catcher.

Ya gotta use common sense in these things dakota... ya cant teach that on a message board though.

Yet another dinger, wade. You're just full of 'em aren't you? And, you keep putting up your straw man argument about waiting on the pitcher to pick off runners, etc.

Who said a diddle damn about waiting! The point is about not killing the ball. You can keep the game moving at a quick pace without killing the ball! But, that does take experience, not just the quick kill.

The rule you keep applying to kill the ball says (Slow Pitch Only) in my ASA rule book.

The rule I use to kill the ball says an umpire can call time..

what rule are you referring too?

Its not a straw man to talk about the picking off the runners on base - thats a specific argument on the part of posters on your side of the argument that killing the ball (when its effectively dead anyway once in the circle with F1 and runners are on bag, barring knuckleheadness not worthy of discussion) prevents a pitcher from attempting to pick off the runner.

Whats next, if the runner lifts her foot slightly while shes waiting on you to stop staring at her and the pitcher to see if they will make a play on eachother, call the runner out for leaving the bag?

Play is dead.. people are waiting.. thats all thats happening.

I guess I'll let you have the last word on this, neither of us will change our styles.

Course IMO, in timed games, its the girls you are robbing when you can only get in 4 innings in a buck 20 and wonder why FP is so slow. Its their game though, let em lag.

:rolleyes:

10-8-I says the umpire is to kill the ball when all immediate play has been completed. That is apparently your standard, which you also apparently interpret to fall into the "conditions justify" clause of 10-8-A, which I claim was not the intent at all.


Yes, it is a straw man argument in replying to my posts, since I never raised that argument. I am arguing against killing the ball just because you, the umpire, think things should stop now.
What people are waiting? Can't you keep a game moving without killing it?:rolleyes: all you want. My original, and still, objection to your philosophy is that you apparently kill the ball during live action merely because the players are too slow and are keeping you out of the shade.

If you care to reply to me again, keep it to that topic, will you? And quit dragging in all of your other silliness about 5 minutes between innings, people waiting on a pitch to happen, etc., etc. All of that can be controlled without calling TIME 200 times a game.

I forget where I got that woot.. but its funny to me :D

Maybe im easily amused.

The only games where there is probably time enough to call time 200 times a game is yalls
:cool:

S'Ok dakota, i know ur prone to overreaching rhetoric to inflate in your mind the value your point.

:D

Man with work and umpiring every day, havent had much time to get the anal retentive point of view of umpiring..

man i missed yall

IOW, say nothing at all on point. Again with the dingers. You're adament that your way (the SP way) is best, and call games that way 'cause dammit you're right & don't need not stinkin' rule changes, but I'm anal retentive??? You're a piece of work, wade.

Hey, youre equally a piece of work.. you complain about zingers, and lace your own posts with zingers, you invent stuff.. (like rule changes, where did you get that?? We are subject to Mikes pals fixing what aint broke in the rule book every year.. thats part of umpiring. I never said anything about rule changes) .. not only that, I was more DEFENDIng my method, not claiming its the only right way, which is what you are doing for your own methods. I stated straight up my methods are not for everyone. Obviously not for you. Cool man.. Many umpires, many ways of doing things. You do what you dig.

Your posts are like living 1 dimensional irony.

Theres no rule you can cling to to support your contention I cant do what I do so you've resorted to rhetoric.

Sad really - hey if its not illegal, its legal.

Period.

Maybe if you dont like it you can get ahold of ASA and make lead offs legal and you can truely have a REAL live ball game..

but we dont as of now, so you will have to pretend we do.

Aha....slowly drawing you to my side ;)

I'm just glad Mike and I are in agreement on this one!

There is no validity to comparing softball and "hard"ball, but those that keep mentioning lead-offs have to remember the 90 ft. vs. 60 ft. difference.

What I find the most ironic about this discussion is that, in my experience, it is baseball, and baseball trained parents, that keep wanting to ask for "time" every time the ball comes in, or after they slide into base. Certainly, if the fielder keeps holding the tag, "time" needs to be called; but, when the ball is thrown to the pitcher, I believe runners can stand up and brush themselves off without "time" being granted.

And, if the fielders can't safely get the ball to the pitcher, that is the coaches' problem; I won't bail them out by calling "time" for them. Wouldn't do it in baseball (where it seems to be expected); surely won't do it in fastpitch.

Not much on sarcasm, are you! ;)

Listen, wade, you started the little typical semi-flame internet dingers. You want to make this a flame war? You're on the wrong board.

You are taking the SP suspended play rule, applying it to FP, and using the unusual condition suspended play rule to justify your god-like power to do what you please, all in the name of making the game what you think it should be, or to be able to sit in the shade and ridicule your fellow blues about who can "manage" their games better.

I'm just glad you're somewhere else.

Riddle me this, batman, why do you have to kill the ball to get players to hustle? Here's another riddle... what the heck does the between innings warmups have to do with killing the ball? Your arguments are so scattershotted they defy logic. You can't keep on point - why do you kill the ball when it is in the hands of an outfielder? Answer that, will you?

Join him Dakota and together you will rule the Galaxy:D

IMO waiting around for a pitcher to pick off a batter standing on bag is laughable.

Even though its within the rules that a pitcher is allowed to try to pick off a batter standing on a bag or in the rules I could wait an undetermined amount of time with the Def player holding their tag on the runner.. I suppose I could even refuse to grant time to the runner holding the bag, and just make them get up watching ever so closely that there isnt a moments separation with the bag.. so as to not abuse authority.. and call time during this precious live ball game

I chose not to. WHen play is done and extraneous activity only remains, I call time and resume my spot behind the catcher.

Ya gotta use common sense in these things dakota... ya cant teach that on a message board though.[/quote]

Two things Wade,:rolleyes:
1. Don't hurt your arm while you pat yourself on the back in the first thing I highlighted.
2. It is obvious that you can't teach common sense on a message board or your wouldn't be posting like you are.

Now for my comments.
People who get saddled with an excess of plate time are usually either in an area with a overwhelming lack of decent umpires (big fish in a little pond) or are so demanding of others recognition of the perceived skill that other umpires are more than willing to forgo having to wear the plate gear.
I have known a few umpires over 28 years who would only work the plate or demand extra plate time. They have all without question, had an overly self inflated opinion of themselves and/or their ability. These kind of umpires lord themselves over others and generally make everyone else miserable or disgusted.
As for common sense, well, while I wouldn't fight a rule change like Mike advocates (nor do I disagree with him) I have always been able to keep FP and MP games moving without killing the ball in contrast to the spirit of the rules.:mad:
Most FP and MP games that I have worked especially over the last 8 or 9 years have been on par with or faster than most adult SP games.
Keeping the game moving within the spirt of the rules is called GAME MANAGEMENT and that my friend takes a lot of common sense.:mad:

I knew there was a reason we missed him. :cool:

From a very smart umpire, who has taught me much. "When a player asks for 'time', ask him, 'Why?'"

Ace