Cat
 

Picking nits here a bit...and speaking ASA...

Anything wrong with this? Cite the rule(s).

http://spysoftball.com/IMG_8302copy.jpg

Cat
 

Her rear foot is not dragging on/touching the ground.

I don't have rulebook in hand so I can't cite the rule.

Rule 6 Section 3
I. Pushing off and dragging the pivot foot in contact with the ground is required. If a hole has been created, the pivot foot may drag no higher than the level plane of the ground.

Post this over on the eteamz board and ask Sam.......:D

My psychic abilities must be in tune today. I knew exactly what this thread would be about before opening it. :D

I didn't
I almost didn't open it because I thought it was a cutsie story about a cat loose on a softball field that delayed play or something. :o

6.3.E (Wrist no father than the elbow) may be called but not from the angle of the photo. That leaping thing. NOBODY ever calls it on her why be the first.

Bugg

How do we know that her foot was not dragging and had bounced up slightly in this photo?

Because it is Cat, and everyone knows she does not usually drag.....

She is within a few hundreths of a second of releasing the ball. She has planted her stride foot and stopped her forward motion. After a legal drag, she is picking up her foot to allow her shoulders to come up and hips to close. Her foot will then set down to the side in a defensive position.

Legal. (At least based on this stop-motion photo.) But then we all know that nobody can be that good - so she must be illegal! :rolleyes:

WMB

I see nothing from this. I vote legal.

IMHO, if she were employing "leap and drag" :eek: her front foot would be out of the circle, especially since she is 6-2 or so.

Isn't USA softball ASA sanctioned? If so, that rubber-band thingy on her right arm is illegal as those rubber-band thingies are considered "jewelry".

This photo is of a practice, not a game.

:D ASA doesn't forbid jewelry. It is left to umpires discretion as to danger or distraction.

I can't call IP from this picture. Her socks don't match F5's, gotta be something wrong there!

Would anyone really call this in a game if that's the extent of her IP? I mean really . . . would you?

You're right and I, as a registered ASA umpire deem that rubber-band thingy is a hazard and wouldn't let her wear it so she either takes it off or doesn't play.

It's an elbow brace, why is it different than a sliding pad, etc.

What pitch is she throwing in the picture? I'm guessing it's a rise ball.

You are looking at something different, Ran D. ND is focused on the yellow rubber "live-strong" or knock off on the right arm. NFHS calls that jewelry, and in some areas that is considered jewelry by other umpires associations.

I can't think of anything dangerous about it, either to the wearer or any other participant; even in a third world scenario. Nor do I consider it jewelry (definitions follow from dictionary.com). Still, in his game, he has the right to make that determination.

jew·el·ry ( P ) Pronunciation Key (jl-r)
n.
Ornaments, such as bracelets, necklaces, or rings, made of precious metals set with gems or imitation gems.

[Download Now or Buy the Book]
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


jewelry

n : an adornment (as a bracelet or ring or necklace) made of precious metals and set with gems (or imitation gems) [syn: jewellery]

Nope, not in ASA. For that matter, jewelry is not illegal in ASA unless the umpire deems the piece to be dangerous.

Okay. Not saying that you are wrong. For that matter, as an ASA umpire, the rule book gives you the authority to do exactly what you state. However, can you tell me what you consider dangerous about a rubber band on a player's wrist?

By ASA standards this would be illegal. It is hard to tell from one still picture, but by the picture of Cat she is legal by NCAA rules, I don't know about ISF. Maybe someone can provide that rule for us. Here is the NCAA Rule:

2006 NCAA SOFTBALL Rules and Interpretations,
RULE 10 PITCHING,
page 115,
Step/Stride,
SECTION 4.d. Having pushed off from the pitcher's plate, the rear, pivot foot must stay in contact with the ground without creating a second push-off point before the stride foot lands.

4.d.1. No leaping is allowed. The pitcher may not become airborne on the initial drive from the pitcher's plate. The rear foot must slide/drag on the ground.

(page 116) 4.d.2. No crow hopping is allowed. The pitcher may not replant, gain a second starting point and push off her pivot foot. Once having lost contact with the pitcher's plate, the pivot foot may trail on the ground but may not bear weight again until the pitch is released.

I don't do college ball but had a friend send me the rule. Both NFHS & PONY have the same take on the rule. The pivot foot is released from maintaining contact with the ground once the non-pivot foot touches the ground on the step forward with release of the ball.

Just my humble opinon, please correct if I'm wrong.

Not saying that you are wrong, but would love to know what in the rules you cited lead you to believe that the pivot foot was permitted to become airborne.

''The pitcher may not become airborne on the initial drive from the pitcher's plate" indicates that after the stride there is no leap possible because a leap is both feet off the ground at the same time.

Mike - I placed in bold print where the idea comes from. Its one of those gray areas that are in the rules. I wished all rules stated "the pivot foot must remain in contact with the ground until the pitch is released", if they said that we umpires would have no problem calling illegal pitches.

2006 NCAA SOFTBALL Rules and Interpretations,
RULE 10 PITCHING,
page 115,
Step/Stride,

SECTION 4.d. Having pushed off from the pitcher's plate, the rear, pivot foot must stay in contact with the ground without creating a second push-off point before the stride foot lands.
4.d.1. No leaping is allowed. The pitcher may not become airborne on the initial drive from the pitcher's plate. The rear foot must slide/drag on the ground.

(page 116) 4.d.2. No crow hopping is allowed. The pitcher may not replant, gain a second starting point and push off her pivot foot. Once having lost contact with the pitcher's plate, the pivot foot may trail on the ground but may not bear weight again until the pitch is released.

SECTION 4.d. ... pivot foot must stay in contact with the ground
[/QUOTE]

Uh ... what? You wish the rule stated that the pivot foot must remain in contact with the ground, and then you quote where it says EXACTLY THAT, almost word for word.

Come on Mike, the rest of the sentence is "without creating a second push-off point before the stride foot lands", not "until the pitch is released" as Tony suggested.

The other part of the rule says "may not bear weight again until the pitch is released", for example.

Okay, I understand what you are reading, but I read those as stating that the foot may lose contact with the PP and drag (trail) on the ground.

I don't read anything which indicates the pitcher may allow the pivot foot to become airborne.

Not trying to start an argument, just pointing out that we are reading the same words yet coming to a different conclusion.

Have you ever tried to break one of those rubber-band thingies? They're pretty strong and I feel if a runner and a fielder got tangled up and all the stars and planets were aligned and a finger got caught in that R-BT, a finger could be very sprained or even broken before that R-BT broke. It's not just me that feels this way either, our local umpire association has put out the word that we're not supposed to allow these things to be worn. We don't allow ANY jewelry. We do allow medi-alert bracelets and necklaces but they need to be taped down.

Sounds like a very third-world play, if you ask me. Seems to me the same thing could happen with the runner's finger and the elastic on the wrist of the fielder's batting glove that she wears under her glove...

It may be a "very third-world play" but I've seen stranger things happen from behind the plate and as a player. I don't see a finger getting caught in the wristband of a batting glove if the batting glove is worn properly, i.e. snug to the wrist.

Yeah ... but the "without creating a second push-off point" is an ADDITIONAL requirement to keeping the foot on the ground, not an exception that allows the foot to come off the ground as long as it doesn't create a second push-off point. The rule very clearly states that the foot must stay in contact with the ground AND that the pitcher can't create a second push-off point.

If the intent of the rulesmakers was to allow the foot to come off the ground as long as it doesn't create a second push-off point, the rule would not even mention coming off the ground. It would just say "Having pushed off from the pitcher's plate, the rear, pivot foot must not create a second push-off point before the stride foot lands."

You are adding an OR into the statement where none exists.

So...here's a play I had last year.

Runner goes sliding into second base. Throw is a little low, 2B goes way down to get it, lotsa diving and stuff going on. I see the velcro on the back of the runner's batting glove slice open a nice little chunk just above the 2B's eye. Her eye to this day looks as if she ran into barbed wire or something.

The batting glove certainly appeared to be worn properly, i.e. snug to the wrist. It was fastened - I know because she called time out at first base to refasten it on the pitch before this play.

If this play had happened in, say, North Dakota, would we have banned this girl for life? Taken her behind the woodshed?

Stuff happens. IMHO we don't need to be telling folks who are playing world championship level fast pitch that they can't wear a Livestrong bracelet.

What about a face mask? A regular glove. Stirrup socks. Shoe strings. Belt loop. A base strap.

Something could get hung-up on a player's pony tail, so should we make them tuck their hair up under their hat (and went in to ask him why?, "You look like a fine young man, I think you'll do"; So I took off my hat and said, "Imagine that, ME working for you; Whoa oh oh oh, signs, signs, everywhere are signs....oops, sorry for the flashback to the Five Man Electrical Band).

Point is, I just think the "jewelry" thing has gone way over to the tree-hugging extreme. It is not my job to protect people from themselves, I have a hard enough time protecting myself and my family.

A) the jewelry discussion is a hijack
B) an ignored factor in the hijack is whether the item is adornment or functional
C) I will respond to mcrowder tomorrow, in the original track of this topic

The original topic was, is there anything wrong with the photo. The "jewelry" topic is among something that could be viewed as an issue, along with other things mentioned. My post, I'll determine if something was hijacked or not.

Or the more popular version by Tesla.

Thought...

Why are some people so worked up over the Armstrong Bracelets, but not worked up over wrist sweat bands?

For instance:
Another Cat Photo too large to post...

Is that a sweat band or a string bracelet on the right wrist? Neither the string bracelet or the cancer band is allowed in NFHS and elsewhere, except NCAA, I would be more likely to ban the string than the smooth cancer band. If that is a soft sweat band below her elbow sleeve, it is specifically allowed in all rules.

Sorry, just trying to make this topic and others easier to follow.

What were you after in the OP?

You'll note my OP specifically stated, "speaking ASA". Discussing NCAA or NFHS rules on this is a hijack.

As previously mentioned, ASA leaves "dangerous jewelry" up to the discression of the umpire. That's why this topic interests me... some think the Armstrong bracelet is dangerous, others don't. I haven't seen anything that really sways me personally to the "it's dangerous" side of the discussion. All I've seen is the 'what if something got tangled up' discussion. Not good enough for me, personally.

Anything discussion that makes us think about our judgement, and how it differs amongst ourselves. :)

Maybe in your world, not even close in mine.:p

SRW,
Is it ok to discuss ISF, since that's what rule set they'll be playing under, and our friend Lori will be umpiring?

(Not that I know anything about ISF other than what I read...)

:D

BTW sports fans, it is supposed to be in the 70s for the second consectuive day in Seattle. Summer may very well arrive before July 4th this year!

Ugh. Reminds me of about 1987 when I was driving around with my younger brother. "Walk This Way" was on the radio, and I was White-Boy-Rapping and drumming the hell out of my steering wheel. My brother looks at me and says, "I didn't know you liked Run DMC."

I just about drove off the road.

At least you didn't say, "Better version by Tesla", so you get just a tiny pass on it.

Negative... :)

Mike, you may have me in the knowledge of softball but when it comes to music, just let it go... ;) I've been in the music business in one way or another for the better part of 20 years, with the last 19 of them being a mobile DJ (weddings, anniversaries, reunions, etc). Talk to anybody that is less that 45 years old and I would suspect 90%+ of them have never heard of the Five Man Electrical Band since the only real hit for them was "Signs". They had a minor hit with "Hello, Melinda Goodbye" but I doubt you'll find very many people that remember that song. Tesla's cover of "Signs" gave it life again and was a decent hit for them.

Sorry for the hijack of this thread!!!:eek: If anybody ever wants to discuss music, let me know and I'll be happy to oblige.

I had the 5 man version on a K-tel Record
Back then, it was da bomb. <img class="inlineimg" src="images/icons/icon4.gif" alt="Exclamation" border="0" />

Okay this is the final word on the photo (at least from me) there is NOTHING wrong. In fact it is clearly legal. Now if you want to see an illegal pitch look no farther than the copy of Balls and Strikes ASA sent me with my recent order of caps and shirts, in that magazine is a girl leaping tall buildings. So I will say that since nobody at ASA Hall of Fame Stadium called it illegal, I will take their lead and also not call it illegal. The jewelry thing, she is an adult and adults can make there own choices regarding jewelry. Now if she was playing anything lower than U18 it comes off, minors can not (by definition) make a binding decision about jewelry.

Bugg

I never proclaimed them a great band, just preferred their version, and yes, I do remember Tesla's. Then again, I prefer the Guess Who's version of American Woman to the cover done by Lenny Kravitz.

IMO, the music (and movies, for that matter) of the past 25 years are mildly good, at best. Very little originality (BTW, patching samples is not "original") and staying power. Too many remakes and covers of more recent stories and songs.

I always tell the youngsters that if today's music is so great, why are 50/60 somethings still filling stadiums, dominate the TV specials (MTV shows are not "musical specials") and dominate the musical tags for many commercials?

I once ran into a couple of mid-20s "businessmen" who were elated they scored tix to the Dave Matthews Band at Veteran's Stadium in Philly. During the conversation, one asked the other, "Who is the other band, Santana?" The response damn near floored me. "That's just some party band that travels around opening for the big names." :eek:

Before I left, I told these guys not to miss the opening act. They couldn't believe that someone had actually heard of Santana.

Add me to the 5 Man Electrical Band camp, and I'm under 45. (Okay, I'm 40, but still....).

Carlos Santana is still frammin' frets
"Smooth" Featuring Rob Thomas is a great Classic/Current blend

I'm in the plus 45 crowd.......

Who is Tesla?

Wasn't that the guy that did all the electromagnetic/electrostatic stuff in Russia back in the day?

No, Nikola Tesla did most of his research and experiments here in the US while working for Thomas Edison. His invention of the radio was his biggest claim to fame but his studies and theories helped the inception of AC current. I need to quit watching the History Channel. :D Also, he wasn't Russian, he was Serbian.

This thread is beyond hijacking. What was the subject? Cat in ASA? Cat's picture re: ASA? Jewelry? Jewelry in NFHS v NCAA? Jewelry in ASA? ISF? The weather in Seattle? Whether record sales or popular recognition has anything whatsoever to do with musicianship? Music in general? Music DJ's at weddings being a good measure of popular music? :rolleyes:

We cannot end it yet!!! We haven't even touched on politics or religion ;)

This is an easy one
 

This is an easy one - she's not wearing uniform socks!

Hey, I was actually a music major in undergrad . . .

I sense another year-long thread coming!!!!!!

Well, since I heard about this thread from SRW last night, I thought I'd check it out. I'm impressed, you guys (and ladies) certainly have taken hijacking to new heights. The only thing that I want to know is, has anyone had a visit from Homeland Security? This thread mentiones both "bombs" and "hijacking", and we all know that in this political climate, everything is being watched. So, there's the political reference, I'll leave the mention of religion to those that do a bit more God-fearing than I.

BTW -I'm almost 36, and Tesla ROCKS!!!!!!!

You're the only one who's combined all those key words into one post - you'll be the first that DHS investigates! :)

Don't think that didn't cross my mind. I'm just letting my freak flag fly. OOOps, there another music reference.:D

Department of Homeland Security......and hear we all grew up thinking Chicken Little was just a nursery story.

Now we're getting into politics! DHS - the solution to several inept government agencies is to combine them into one massive inept agency so all the infighting can be more easily disguised!

Speaking of the weather... What the he-- is going on out east, Mike? See some pretty awful pics on the news - washed out roads, massive flooding...

Hard to believe we squeezed in a tournament yesterday, even with a London mist all day. Someone must have been PRAYING.

I have sent this post to a DHS investigator who is known by SRW and Streamdoc. They know this person in his role as a coach of one of the fastpitch teams (and the one before that and the one before that).

John,

I have to say that I don't know who that is. Shed some light for me so that I can keep an eye out.

Only 360 more days to go!!!

Coaches a team that begins with an "A"...and it's not Derrick, although Derrick would put the fear of God in folks if he were a DHS "Agent."

Mr. C.G., or Mr. J.B.?

Neither CG nor JB.

Would you believe Maxwell Smart?
http://www.tvacres.com/images/get_smart2.jpg

Nope. You missed it by that much.;)

No, huh? Would you believe....this much? :confused:

It's the old add Maxwell Smart to the list of choices trick

If you cannot stand the oddball comedy, employ the Cone of Silence

WHAT??!...HUH???

Chief......Can you hear me now?