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chas Sat Jun 10, 2006 11:25am
1st time 2-man-questions
 
Need some mechanics answers please:
1) R1 on 1st- on a steal and overthrow, who has play on R1 at 3rd?
2) R1 on 2nd or R1 on 2nd, R2 on 1st- on hit to F7 who has play at 3rd- PU or BU- I have been told both
3) R1 on 3rd, R2 on 2nd- on hit to F7 who has R2 at 3rd?
4) R1 on 2nd, R2 on 1st- on base hit who has R2 at 3rd?

Is there a simple formula to follow like BU has all first plays on the infield and then the trail runners. I thought that Bu had all 1st plays on the infield if the ball is hit on the infield. If the ball is hit to the outfield who has the first play at 3rd? Thanks.

MNBlue Sat Jun 10, 2006 11:45am
This is what I do:

1) PU
The PU would be going to the holding zone to observe the play at second. If the runner continues to third, the PU would come up to third to take the call. The BU would stay behind to observe and be available to help on a possible rundown. If runner continues home, PU busts butt.
2) PU
Same general philosphy as #1.
3) BU
PU has to stay near home for possible play on R1, so BU would take call at 3rd.
4) PU
Same as #1 and #2.

CecilOne Sat Jun 10, 2006 07:10pm
The PU has 3rd with four exceptions:
1) batter-runner
2) first play in infield
3) concurrent play at home
4) steal of 3rd if no prior play at another base.

Sometimes I say a fifth in pre-game "when the PU forgets":rolleyes:

IRISHMAFIA Sat Jun 10, 2006 07:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chas
Need some mechanics answers please:
Speaking ASA
Quote:
1) R1 on 1st- on a steal and overthrow, who has play on R1 at 3rd?
PU
Quote:
2) R1 on 2nd or R1 on 2nd, R2 on 1st- on hit to F7 who has play at 3rd- PU or BU- I have been told both
Maybe that's because the question is non-specific. Play on which runner at 3B?

Quote:
3) R1 on 3rd, R2 on 2nd- on hit to F7 who has R2 at 3rd?
Depends on whether there is a possible play at home. If there is, BU. If not, PU, but his/her priority is still the plate.

Quote:
4) R1 on 2nd, R2 on 1st- on base hit who has R2 at 3rd?
Depends on whether there is a possible play at home. If there is, BU. If not, PU, but his/her priority is still the plate.
Quote:

Is there a simple formula to follow like BU has all first plays on the infield and then the trail runners. I thought that Bu had all 1st plays on the infield if the ball is hit on the infield. If the ball is hit to the outfield who has the first play at 3rd? Thanks.
The simple formula is attend a clinic and school and read the umpire manual. Not being a smart ***, but his is part of being an umpire.

chas Sat Jun 10, 2006 07:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA
Speaking ASA


PU


Maybe that's because the question is non-specific. Play on which runner at 3B?
The lead runner


Depends on whether there is a possible play at home. If there is, BU. If not, PU, but his/her priority is still the plate. basically i'm talking about 14 or 12-U where with runners on 1st and 2nd and a sharp single to left with a possible force at 3rd, who takes it? you say if no play at home, PU. Well I guess if F7 is winging it to 3rd then there's no play at home so I can conclude that the PU has it.

Depends on whether there is a possible play at home. If there is, BU. If not, PU, but his/her priority is still the plate.

The simple formula is attend a clinic and school and read the umpire manual. Not being a smart ***, but his is part of being an umpire.
I have attended clinics and for the most part they are a joke. There is absolutely no substitution for experience and the knowledge of others. I have also read the umpire's manual. However when I get conflicting answers I like to come here and get it straight.

IRISHMAFIA Sun Jun 11, 2006 06:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chas
I have attended clinics and for the most part they are a joke. There is absolutely no substitution for experience and the knowledge of others. I have also read the umpire's manual. However when I get conflicting answers I like to come here and get it straight.
Chas,

You ask questions, but you don't even offer the santioning body of the games you work. Not all are the same which may mean that you will get conflicting information. Nor do you mention the discipline of softball to which you are referring.

That also means we have no idea what umpire manual you have read. Getting this information, someone on the board may direct you to a clinic or school which isn't "a joke".

While this forum is pretty good for the exchange and discussion of rules, mechanics and ideas, it is no substitute for a good clinic and school. And if you cannot find one in your home town, find some place that does have a good clinic/school and go to that one.

SC Ump Sun Jun 11, 2006 06:33am
In this year's ASA umpire manual (page 239), there are four general times listed when the PU will make the call at third. For FP, these are very specifically discussed on pages 240-245. For SP, they are detailed on page 245.

If you come from an area that does not have strong clinics, or where there are "locals" that want to do it their way instead of by the book, you might want to cover this in the pregame with your partner before you get on the field.

SC Ump Sun Jun 11, 2006 06:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Ump
...you might want to cover this in the pregame with your partner before you get on the field.
I know I'm replying to my own post, but I just realized that if folks in your area aren't strong at mechanics, they might not do a pregame between partners either. You should be able to initiate one easily by saying something to your partner like, "Hey, there's a couple of things I want to make sure I'm doing by the book..."

DSUAUmpire Sun Jun 11, 2006 09:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne
The PU has 3rd with four exceptions:
1) batter-runner
2) first play in infield
3) concurrent play at home
4) steal of 3rd if no prior play at another base.

Sometimes I say a fifth in pre-game "when the PU forgets":rolleyes:
Steal attempt at third base belongs to PU. No provision for 1st play in the infield in ASA mechanics, depends on the situation. BU has the trail runner at third.

IRISHMAFIA Mon Jun 12, 2006 08:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSUAUmpire
Steal attempt at third base belongs to PU.
Only in SP. BU has it in FP.

Quote:
No provision for 1st play in the infield in ASA mechanics, depends on the situation.
In FP the BU has first throw to any base, but home. This is included in paragraph 2 of the Field Umpire section of all the FP mechanics with runners on base. Any throw back to third would be PU.

DSUAUmpire Mon Jun 12, 2006 09:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA
Only in SP. BU has it in FP.



In FP the BU has first throw to any base, but home. This is included in paragraph 2 of the Field Umpire section of all the FP mechanics with runners on base. Any throw back to third would be PU.
you are correct.


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