Hit by bouncing pitch...?

[oneonone]

I was watching a "slaughter in the box" tonight at a LL girls softball 10U game. In the first 2 innings the home team had 8 girls hit by fast bouncing "wild" pitches from the visiting teams rookie pitcher. The umpire allowed the coaches to convince him that because the ball hits the ground before the girls its dead and its just a ball. I tried throwing in my 2 cents and said then every ball that hits the ground before the plate is a dead ball and no one runner should ever be allowed to steel on a bouncer that passes the catcher. I know that rule 6.08 covers the ball hitting the player but it doesn't specificly mention anything about what if it hits the ground first. I read the rule as (b) the batter touched by a pitched ball, which the batter is not attempting to hit. My reading of the rule would be 'In the air or on the ground doesn't matter...both are live pitched balls. Is there a case number that specificly states bounced balls are pitched balls? I won't even get into the official cry of tonights umpire "tie always goes to the runner!!!" if he said it once....he actually said it eight times!!

[UmpireErnie]

This is a big fastpitch mythical rule. The pitch is still totally alive if it touches the ground. If it hits the batter the batter goes to 1B assuming she tried to avoid being hit. The batter may also strike at a pitch that touched the ground, and if the ball is hit it is legal.

The only significance in the pitch touching the ground is that it can no longer be considered a “caught” third strike if it is swung on and missed. In LL Major and Minor groups (10U would have to be one of these divisions) the batter is always out on strike three so it would not matter for the game in question.

[justmom]

QUOTE]This is a big fastpitch mythical rule[/QUOTE].

Probably why it is spelled out so specifically in the FED rule book..."It does not matter if the ball strikes the ground before hitting the batter. The batter's hands are not to be considered a part of the bat".

[UmpireErnie]

Whenever I am in a store that sells sporting goods I always look for those bats. You know the ones, the bats that come equiped with hands!

[fastpitch]

We actually had a league put in a rule in 10U that if the ball struck the ground first the batter will not be awarded first base. We also have some local rules that say any one pitcher cannot hit more than 4 batters or she must be removed. We have a couple of leagues that do not allow walks in 10U (one even in 12U), the coach pitches the remaining or all 3 strikes on ball 4. Needless to say, these are not some of the more competitive leagues in the area.

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by oneonone

I won't even get into the official cry of tonights umpire "tie always goes to the runner!!!" if he said it once....he actually said it eight times!!

Glad he didn't say "tie goes to the fielder".

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by fastpitch

We actually had a league put in a rule in 10U that if the ball struck the ground first the batter will not be awarded first base. We also have some local rules that say any one pitcher cannot hit more than 4 batters or she must be removed. We have a couple of leagues that do not allow walks in 10U (one even in 12U), the coach pitches the remaining or all 3 strikes on ball 4. Needless to say, these are not some of the more competitive leagues in the area.

Is this in LL?? A local league is not allowed to make a rule that supersedes a LL rule. Every rule you mentioned would fall into that category . . .

[UmpireErnie]

Originally Posted by fastpitch

We actually had a league put in a rule in 10U that if the ball struck the ground first the batter will not be awarded first base. We also have some local rules that say any one pitcher cannot hit more than 4 batters or she must be removed. We have a couple of leagues that do not allow walks in 10U (one even in 12U), the coach pitches the remaining or all 3 strikes on ball 4. Needless to say, these are not some of the more competitive leagues in the area.

ASA, for one, and probably most other softball organizations allow local leagues to use their official rule book but add their own local modifications. Most of the time the type of “modifications” you see have to do with time limits, run ahead rules, home run limits in slow pitch but obviously some league get some exotic things going on.

You did already state it but just to reiterate, all of these “adopted rules” are NOT the rules of softball in any national organization.

[fastpitch]

We have over a dozen local associations, each with their own set of rules. Many are similar, in one case even leaving in verbage referring to the another association. ASA takes precedence unless superseded by a local rule. For example, in 10U at some of the more competitive leagues they allow stealing home. You basically need to go to the web site and read them before going out: it is real easy to confuse them. Most are related to run limits, time limits, etc. but the younger the age group, the more local rules. In TBall 40+ rules is average. Since all the parks are run by volunteers there is turnover so our local association is not always able to provide input. Some of them even restate the ASA rule which is the scariest. We suggest they add a section that states - below are rules from the ASA rule book you should know and be familiar with (like LBR) and the rule book takes precedence in the case of a misprint. Most of the associations all register ASA so they get rule books but there are exceptions.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by fastpitch

We have over a dozen local associations, each with their own set of rules. Many are similar, in one case even leaving in verbage referring to the another association. ASA takes precedence unless superseded by a local rule. For example, in 10U at some of the more competitive leagues they allow stealing home. You basically need to go to the web site and read them before going out: it is real easy to confuse them. Most are related to run limits, time limits, etc. but the younger the age group, the more local rules. In TBall 40+ rules is average. Since all the parks are run by volunteers there is turnover so our local association is not always able to provide input. Some of them even restate the ASA rule which is the scariest. We suggest they add a section that states - below are rules from the ASA rule book you should know and be familiar with (like LBR) and the rule book takes precedence in the case of a misprint. Most of the associations all register ASA so they get rule books but there are exceptions.

40+ rules sounds like too many knee-jerks

Also, not enough continuity.

[fastpitch]

but they all make perfect sense I actually helped write some in my younger years, am responsible for 2 that seem to have pervaded around to a few of the local leagues (remember this is rec): I added a rule that says a player is out if she crashes into a player whether or not she is about to catch the ball (not relevant anymore) and a rule that the scheduler for our umpiring association suggested to me: if a player is unable to continue her at bat the last out will be substituted to finish the count. This is a great rule when a little girl is crying at the plate after getting hit in the hands on a swing.

47 TBall rules - one of the best of our local leagues:
http://www.ngbsa.org/dnn402/Rules/So...2/Default.aspx

or go to www.ngbsa.org and select rules/softball for all leagues