Tennessee vs. Michigan
 

Is anyone besides me weary of even the broadcasters NOT knowing rules? I just heard the announcer say that in the event of a "tie" the rule says it goes to the runner!! What the heck!!!!!!!:eek:

Terrible as usual.

I am not excited with the announcers during college softball. They speak well although sometimes have trouble with game details and/or rules knowledge.
I was watching a college softball game a few weeks ago and twice (once by each announcer) they called the pitchers plate (or circle) as the "mound" during the same half inning. This prompted me to send ESPN a brief e-mail asking that announcers do not call the pitchers "area" the "mound".
IMO: Maybe I am too technical but we umpires view the game somewhat different that the regular fan.
Sad that Michigan (GO BLUE) lost to Tennessee today. :(

I also saw a "slapper" who had both feet out of the box while she made contact with the ball. It was so obvious that the PU had to be looking up to the sky or had his eyes closed. PLEASE noboby chime in that we have the benefit of camera angles, he just flat missed this. Dave

Being an umpire as well as a radio broadcaster for a local radio station, I can say that most ESPN announcers have no clue about softball. I'm guessing that softball is of low priority to ESPN and they just grab announcers that they use for their main sports coverage and tell them "just pretend you're doing baseball"
As for the Mich/Tenn games. i thought that overall Pam Ward did a good job with play by play and that the woman doing color also did a decent job.
I'm also guessing that officials of volleyball, lacrose, water polo, wrestling, and other sports that only get a few ESPN games a year also cringe at some of the things said.
As long as ESPN continues to air more games, we can only hope that the announcing improves with it.

I found the best way to watch the ESPN broadcasts with the talking "bobble heads" is to turn off the volume.I had an enjoyable afternoon watching the games with no sound while listening to my local Phillies broadcast on the radio.The "bobble heads" have zero worthwhile information that I care to listen to.You mean the tie doesnt go to the runner?:D

Jeff
NFHS Umpire
NCAA Umpire
ASA Umpire

Overthrow.
 

In the first game of the day ,2nd of series, maybe 2nd inning Tenn. 3rd baseman overthrew the F3 and it hit the tarp , then a spectator and they apparently played on with the Michigan player ending on 3rd. Are the rules different in NCAA cause I thought it was 2 bases from the time of the throw which would have put the BR at 2nd base i don't know if the games are broadcasted regionally or nationally but is anyone else tired of seeing Michigan and or UCLA ? I got to see CAL at a local tourney and they were playing today but got Mich and Tenn instead of Cal which is only 85 miles away.

No rule difference. The only logical explanation is that none of the umpires saw it contact a spectator; thus, play on.

I was more P.O'd that we were shown a rerun of Arizona-LSU instead of the live Cal-Oregon State.

All the more reason you shouldn't get the Cal game

It's playoff time
 

I like to follow teams from my area. Its like during football season ALL DAY Long I get SEC football-don't care-well I did when UNLV-GO REBs-beat Arkansas-a couple of years ago. i would rather watch Boise State play Reno Wolfpack than Tenn-Auburn-don't care. Just like all of you east of the Mississippi could care less about Mountain West football thats how a FEW of us out here on the west coast feel about SEC football.

I saw that play too, I thought the umpires kicked it (or maybe they got it right and once again the announcers kicked it) but the net result was correct in my opinion. I thought the fielder bobbled the ball and should have eaten the throw because the runner was there already . . . I'd love to see it again but the ball clearly went into dead-ball territory and should have been killed. It is 2 bases from the time of the throw - the question (which I'm not TOTALLY positive) is whether she had already touched first.

The slapper that came out of the box was in the UCLA game and she was CLEARLY out of the box - I thought she stepped on the plate - but clearly out of the box (more than once). What magnifies this situation is that the UCLA coach even questioned it more than once!

I also thought the Tenn/Michigan strike zone yesterday was pretty inconsistent. I wish everyone was perfect like me!! LMAO! :D

“Rant On”

What got me was that ESPN goes thru the trouble of broadcasting the 2nd and 3rd games of the Tenn/Mich series.. Michigan pushes the series to a decisive game three.. it’s a tight 1-0 ball game going into the seventh inning.. and then almost the entire seventh inning is preempted by Barry Bonds hitting his big home run.

And we don’t just get the Barry at bat. No. We get a ton of talking-head commentary after that, then we get to go into a pre-planned Barry mini history complete with many reruns of Barry hitting homers, and a stretch were we see Barry getting intentionally walked a few times. Then we have to talk about the steroids. Then we have to listen to HEY DOES ANYONE REMEMBER THAT WE ARE PRE-EMPTING A LIVE EVENT HERE TO SEE “HIGHLIGHTS” OF BARRY GETTING WALKED?:mad:

Oh, my God!

By the time they come back to the softball game, it was over and Tennessee had won. But Michigan had nearly pulled a come from behind win in the 7th. We were immediately told the final score, and then we got to watch the Michigan half of the 7th.

Couldn’t ESPN have shown the at-bat (about 2 minutes) gone back to the end of the softball game, then pre-empted SportsCenter for an edition of BarryCenter right after the softball game. I know people are into the Barry Watch, but don’t spoil the end of another game for him.

“Rant Off” 

Ernie

During the pre-empting, I went to www.espn.com, sent a complaint e-mail and then changed channels.

Hijacking thread (a little):

On the 'suicide' bunt in the top of the 6th(?), was it not a 1-1 count and Durant pulled back on the bunt causing R1 to get picked off at third? That would have made it 2-1, but the next pitch was a strike and retired the side.

The bad thing is that ESPN has former players as commentators and color experts and they suck! I, for one, was absolutely thrilled to hear fellow-West Virginian Jon Kruck wax eloquent on Barry Bonds being the greatest LH batter of all times - WHO GIVES A RATS BUTT! If I wanted to see that I would have paid for major league all access on cable - I wanted to watch the softball game - and of course the umpires.

Yeah but aren't many play by play announcers and most color comentators former players? And yes, they can bring a perspective to the game.

Problem is they don't get to call that many games on TV. I bet a lot of former MLB players turned commentators have made plenty of goofs when learning the ropes on TV.

I am glad the sport is getting coverage, and hope the knowledge of the game will improve as time goes on, with the announcers as well as everyone else.

On the replay, as soon as I heard one start to say, "It looks like a tie at the bag, so..." I muted the TV quickly and told my wife, "you know what they are going to say next!" :p

Whenever there's a close/controversial play, it is humorous to see/hear these ex-jock commentators' old umpire prejudices come to the fore :D

Does that mean they know the rules any more comprehensively than the average fan? :rolleyes:

I'm going to hate myself for saying this, but speaking ASA, the tie does go to the runner. (8.7.C).

I will always proclaim that the tie goes to the umpire :D, but I would be wrong.

I was in the press box, standing right behind Pam Ward and Cheri Kempf. But I could hardly hear what they were saying. If I had actually heard them break out the "tie goes to runner" myth, I was ready to slip them a note to tell them that, once again, there is no such rule.

Overall, though, I thought they did a good job. I just wish they could have seen fit to have Jennie Finch do commentary for that game...that would have been NICE.

I was also ticked about them cutting away to Barry Bonds at the crucial moment of the game. And, for the most part, I thought the umpiring was decent. The umpire's strike zone in Game 1 on Saturday was one of the best I have seen all year. The guy in Game 2 wasn't so great, the one in Game 3 was some better. From my vantage point, I couldn't see what happened on the overthrow, but UT's coach did come out to complain about it; however, nothing was done.

I also didn't understand the strike call on Durant. It was obvious she pulled the bat back; if she had actually offered at the ball, she probably could have at least made contact with the ball and kept from hanging Hammond out to dry. But at least it all turned out well.

I'm ready for the new park next year. Cramming 11 people into a press box that's built for 6 is not easy.

No, my point was that in many sports former players turn to broadcasting. But someone who calls 150+ baseball games on TV in a year is going to get better at doing it, going to get better at knowing the rules etc. How many softball games do Pam and Sheri broadcast a year? Not that announcers in major league sports don’t say things that make officials in those sports cringe, I think it just doesn’t happen as often after they have spent a lot of time behind the mic and in front of the camera. Just like with us on the field!

I’d rather have TV coverage with announcers who would not make good umpires, than TV coverage with umpires who do would not make good announcers. Or no TV at all! How long has softball been covered on TV? Not many years. Let’s hope it keeps growing.

P.S. Of course the tie goes to the umpire Mike, that's why they pay us!:D

Well, sure, to us with five looks and multiple camera angles it looked like she pulled it back. Who amoug us has never had to have a conversation with a coach over whether or not the batter offered at the ball? Our brother behind the plate saw something he judged to be offering at the ball, he called a strike. I am not going to argue. Strike two, play ball.

I don't know about anyone else, but I have NEVER seen a tie . . . ;)

Even though this isn't an ASA game and ASA rules do not apply, let's look at what Mike says. I'm looking at my trusty ASA rule book and 8.7.C says they are out if the fielder touches the base while in possession of the ball, tags the base or the runner BEFORE the runner reaches the base (my paraphrase). It's basically the same type of verbage you will find in the NF or NCAA rule book. Even though this isn't speaking of the BR I see nothing about a tie going to the runner. Am I overlooking something?

Okay, look at it this way. If the runner touched the base and the ball entered the defenders glove at the same time, then it is obvious the defense did not touch the base with the ball in possession BEFORE the runner touched the base.

And 8-2-C says the same for a batter runner, they are out if they are put out PRIOR to reaching first base.

My personal philosphy: I listen for the pop of the ball and watch the runner's foot... if I hear the ball at the exact same time I see the foot, then the ball must have gotten there 3/10,000,000ths of a second sooner since sound travels slower then light.

That's assuming I'm about 10 feet away when I make the call. If I'm in "C", I'll adjust as needed. :D

Switch to math concept for a moment. Either x > y, or x = y, or x < y. Technically, there are 3 possibilities; runner came first, out came first, or there was an exact tie. By the actual wording of the rules, the runner is not required to beat the out, the out is required to beat the runner. Therefore, tie must go to the runner.

By the next extension of science, what is the actual possibility of an exact tie in time and space, when time can be broken into an infinitesimally small component? My argument isn't that ties don't go to the runner; I submit that I have never seen one; in fact, at some point, the human eye is incapable of judging anything that infinitesimally small, even with slow motion replay, at times.

Bottom line is my judgment, which I trust to be sharper in the vasy majority of cases than the coaches or fans (who see with their hearts, not just their eyes). If the ball beat the runner, I have an out; if the ball didn't beat the runner, I have a safe. I refuse to discuss ties (I know I'm not wearing one!!). All I will state in response is if the ball did or didn't beat the runner.

And for that, I'll give you a HUGE round of applause! I don't think it could have been said any better.

Possibility? Same as the other two, one in three.

Probability? Not enough bandwidth to even think about it. :confused:

The point is that it does not matter if the ball/fielder and runner arrived at the exact same infinitesimal measure of time; but just that no one could tell which came first. A "tie" is when they appear to be simultaneous to the human eye/ear and that is when the ball/fielder did not beat the runner and the call is safe.

On the 'suicide' bunt in the top of the 6th(?), was it not a 1-1 count and Durant pulled back on the bunt causing R1 to get picked off at third? That would have made it 2-1, but the next pitch was a strike and retired the side.[/quote]

I saw that too. It looked like the Michigan coach came out and talked the hp umpire into a strike and the announcers missed that there was even a conversation about it. I decided to go for a swim and taped the game with the DVR. I enjoyed getting to watch the 7th inning even after BB home run but how stupid can you get showing the final score first.

Re
 

This isn't just a softball issue. I see equally bad rule knowledge amongst baseball announcers. Announcers must not feel that knowing the rules is important enough or else they would actually open the rule book and read it.

Perhaps the problem is that we, being umpires ourselves, expect too much from announcers. Perhaps it is better that they spend their time reading up on the next team they will be announcing so they can tell us the players' names correctly, their stats, and how they have be doing as of late.

Blu

Sure - it's WAY more important to find out what music is on their freakin' IPOD than it is to know the rules!! I don't care if this girl's mom makes the best peanut butter and blueberry pancakes in south California! If I were an announcer, I would want to sound, look and BE as credible as possible. Here's a novel idea - maybe they should attend a RULES clinic . . . naaaaaaaah:cool: