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Old Tue May 23, 2006, 03:33pm
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SP Pitching questions

Need help on some pitching questions for ASA SP no stealing (This was men's but could apply to womens or co-ed too):

Pitcher starts to deliver to plate, but doesn't deliver the ball - like a fake
Is this an illegal pitch, no pitch, or nothing? Does it matter if he steps off the pitcher's plate and comes back to restart?

I am having trouble calling low, below 6 feet, pitches illegal before they reach the plate - any suggestions? If a pitch is illegal and I don't call it fast enough the batter may swing. If I don't say it fast enough can I still call the pitch illegal and is there any recourse if the batter swings because I am late? I don't know why I am having so many problems with this this year.
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Old Tue May 23, 2006, 03:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tzme415
Need help on some pitching questions for ASA SP no stealing (This was men's but could apply to womens or co-ed too):

Pitcher starts to deliver to plate, but doesn't deliver the ball - like a fake
Is this an illegal pitch, no pitch, or nothing? Does it matter if he steps off the pitcher's plate and comes back to restart?
Once the pitcher comes to a stop on the pitcher's plate, any motion other than stepping back off the PP is part of the delivery. Failure to complete the delivery is an IP.
Quote:
I am having trouble calling low, below 6 feet, pitches illegal before they reach the plate - any suggestions? If a pitch is illegal and I don't call it fast enough the batter may swing. If I don't say it fast enough can I still call the pitch illegal and is there any recourse if the batter swings because I am late? I don't know why I am having so many problems with this this year.
If the pitch is THAT fast, you better be warning the pitcher about speed.

It is hard to get the entire call out, but any sound from the umpire should be an indication to the batter not to swing. Of course, many of these guy's eyes get so big when they see the flat pitch, they're swinging anyway.

You WILL have players telling you to call it sooner, but you may want to ask them how you are going to read the pitcher's mind to know before the ball is released that the pitch is going to be illegal.
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Old Tue May 23, 2006, 04:27pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tzme415
Need help on some pitching questions for ASA SP no stealing (This was men's but could apply to womens or co-ed too):

Pitcher starts to deliver to plate, but doesn't deliver the ball - like a fake
Is this an illegal pitch, no pitch, or nothing? Does it matter if he steps off the pitcher's plate and comes back to restart?

I am having trouble calling low, below 6 feet, pitches illegal before they reach the plate - any suggestions? If a pitch is illegal and I don't call it fast enough the batter may swing. If I don't say it fast enough can I still call the pitch illegal and is there any recourse if the batter swings because I am late? I don't know why I am having so many problems with this this year.
As you described, yes illegal. Once the pitching motion starts, It must continue. The 6 footers are tough sometimes. When I start to have problems with them, I look for the pitch to get as high as the pitchers head, Avg. person. Like Mike said they'll swing at the flatter pitch, but if you feel it's illegal, whether you get it out or not, it is still illegal. I've had that delay, not getting something verbal, hoping it would rise a little more. Try to get the arm out as soon as possible. If the batter takes, I just say 'bring it up some'. The pitcher understands. The batters want it called on the high end.
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Old Tue May 23, 2006, 04:55pm
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Thanks guys -

I think some of these guys play 16" or USSSA and forget you can't fake in ASA 12", but I did have one guy just say that he was losing his grip on the ball so he stopped. One more question on this, If the pitcher does a fake, should I call time and make him restart the delivery or just call illegal pitch and let the batter decide if he wants to swing at the pitch?

Its the ones that only get to just under 6 ft that are hard to call for me because I have to wait until it gets about 1/2 way to the plate to see if it going to get high enough. Then by the time I say illegal the batter is already swinging, this is especially bad if there are already 2 strikes. I'll just work on seeing the pitch and trying to be quicker with the call. And thank Mike for giving me something of a comeback if they give me a hard time.
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Old Tue May 23, 2006, 05:01pm
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[QUOTE=tzme415]Thanks guys -

I think some of these guys play 16" or USSSA and forget you can't fake in ASA 12", but I did have one guy just say that he was losing his grip on the ball so he stopped. One more question on this, If the pitcher does a fake, should I call time and make him restart the delivery or just call illegal pitch and let the batter decide if he wants to swing at the pitch?[quote]

No, if the pitcher literally stops, as opposed to hesitating, kill it and award a ball.

Quote:
Its the ones that only get to just under 6 ft that are hard to call for me because I have to wait until it gets about 1/2 way to the plate to see if it going to get high enough. Then by the time I say illegal the batter is already swinging, this is especially bad if there are already 2 strikes. I'll just work on seeing the pitch and trying to be quicker with the call. And thank Mike for giving me something of a comeback if they give me a hard time.
Forget the 6' and try using to 7'-11'. Even then the batters will swear you are missing the low pitches.
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Old Tue May 23, 2006, 05:11pm
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When I do ASA Slowpitch I use myself as a judge. I'm 5'11 If the ball doesn't go above my head or a tad bit above my eye level, I've got an Delayed dead ball signal and a verbal "illegal".

If F1 tries the studder pitch that USSSA allows then usually when you call "illegal" and the DDB signal goes out the pitcher usually stops.
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Old Wed May 24, 2006, 07:03am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tzme415
I am having trouble calling low, below 6 feet, pitches illegal before they reach the plate - any suggestions? If a pitch is illegal and I don't call it fast enough the batter may swing. If I don't say it fast enough can I still call the pitch illegal and is there any recourse if the batter swings because I am late? I don't know why I am having so many problems with this this year.
Before the pitch I'm standing straight up behind the catcher. I'll stay in this position to judge height, either too high or too low. As a guide for the lower limit I'll look for daylight between the ball and the pitcher's head. I'm 6ft tall, assuming the pitcher is 6ft tall if the ball doesn't clear his head it's illegal.

I've always found that more players complain about pitches being too low rather than too high.
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Old Wed May 24, 2006, 08:42am
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[QUOTE=IRISHMAFIA][QUOTE=tzme415]Thanks guys -

I think some of these guys play 16" or USSSA and forget you can't fake in ASA 12", but I did have one guy just say that he was losing his grip on the ball so he stopped. One more question on this, If the pitcher does a fake, should I call time and make him restart the delivery or just call illegal pitch and let the batter decide if he wants to swing at the pitch?[quote]

No, if the pitcher literally stops, as opposed to hesitating, kill it and award a ball.
____
Hmmm, killing it. I believe you hold that arm out until after the delivery. The batter has the option of taking the ball or swinging.
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Old Wed May 24, 2006, 09:20am
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No, Joe.. if he stops, he's completed THAT delivery, and the IP is immediate. You don't wait for him to reinitiate a new delivery.
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Old Wed May 24, 2006, 12:54pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrowder
No, Joe.. if he stops, he's completed THAT delivery, and the IP is immediate. You don't wait for him to reinitiate a new delivery.
I beg to differ, as I believe I brought up the same/similar situation at the Arlington Clinic. I have a call in for clairification and will post.
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Old Thu May 25, 2006, 10:54am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrowder
No, Joe.. if he stops, he's completed THAT delivery, and the IP is immediate. You don't wait for him to reinitiate a new delivery.
So under your scenario, a batter can walk on 4 IP's without a pitch delivered to the batter. When does an IP end? You call an IP when an improper act during the delivery process or height limit infraction, is committed, making the pitch to the batter illegal, giving the batter the option of taking or swinging. Nowhere does it say you kill it and award a ball. The batter determines if a ball. Once the improper act is committed, everything else is immaterial. You don't award a ball for each pump fake or pause in the delivery, except if the ball slips in the pitchers hand, then you have a NP. I still am awaiting for the clarification. I maybe wrong, but I look at it this way. You have a delivery process- the wind-up and then you have the pitch- release to the batter. If no release to the batter, then there's been no pitch made.(ok intentional walk is to be considered as a pitch being made). Pitcher starts his delivery, F3 says hold up, appeal runner missing 2B. Do you honor it? He's only committed an illegal act during the delivery, but the pitch has not been made. OK am I barking up the wrong tree or what?
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Last edited by rodan55; Thu May 25, 2006 at 11:02am.
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Old Thu May 25, 2006, 12:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodan55
So under your scenario, a batter can walk on 4 IP's without a pitch delivered to the batter. When does an IP end? You call an IP when an improper act during the delivery process or height limit infraction, is committed, making the pitch to the batter illegal, giving the batter the option of taking or swinging. Nowhere does it say you kill it and award a ball. The batter determines if a ball. Once the improper act is committed, everything else is immaterial. You don't award a ball for each pump fake or pause in the delivery, except if the ball slips in the pitchers hand, then you have a NP. I still am awaiting for the clarification. I maybe wrong, but I look at it this way. You have a delivery process- the wind-up and then you have the pitch- release to the batter. If no release to the batter, then there's been no pitch made.(ok intentional walk is to be considered as a pitch being made). Pitcher starts his delivery, F3 says hold up, appeal runner missing 2B. Do you honor it? He's only committed an illegal act during the delivery, but the pitch has not been made. OK am I barking up the wrong tree or what?
Joe,

We are talking about a pitch that is NOT delivered. There is no ball for the batter to possibly hit.

An IP is enforced when the play is over. There is no pitch coming. The play is over. The umpire calls time and applies the penalty for the IP as that cannot be done during a live ball.
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Old Thu May 25, 2006, 02:56pm
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I don't ever recall a pitcher who started their delivery, did something for an IP and then step off the plate. So, as along as he is on the plate, I should consider this as a continuation of the delivery/pitch. Only when he steps off do I say the play is complete, award a ball, and start over. IF IP is called, DDB, and no release to the batter and the batter swings at that moment, then I have a strike. If this is correct- what an easy game.
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Old Fri May 26, 2006, 10:25am
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Got it.

Guess I was reading too much into it.

An IP not delived will be called a ball. Any action by the batter is nullified, like swinging. Continue, play on.
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Old Fri May 26, 2006, 01:14pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodan55
Guess I was reading too much into it.

An IP not delived will be called a ball. Any action by the batter is nullified, like swinging. Continue, play on.
Joe,

If the pitcher doesn't release the ball, at what would the batter be swinging?
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