Both teams enter dugouts, 2 out, 1 on
 

CSA

One out, runner at 1st.

Batter strikes out ... catcher calls out a congrats to her pitcher, rolls the ball towards the pitcher's plate and trots off the field, the rest of her team jogs in after her. Along with them, the runner on first along with both base coaches go to their dugouts.

A couple parents are screaming "that's only two out!".

The ump was wondering if he had the outs wrong at two but had still not made any call after the strike out.

So, the girl that was on 1st darts out from the dugout and runs around the bases, ump calls safe and counts the run. Defence runs back on the field and the inning continues.

I think she should have been called out when she entered her dugout. Our rule book says if a runner abandons her base and leaves the playing field AND THE BALL IS LIVE, then she is out.

I believe the ball is "live" under all circumstances, including when the pitcher is in her circle unless the ump calls time or dead ball (or foul ball) .... am I right ???

Use to be a standard ruse when I was playing. And, I believe you are correct, once the runner entered DBT, she's done.

BTW, what is CSA? Always thought you were a Dixie guy.

Softball Canada is the most-recent term, I suppose.

CSA was (is?) Canadian Softball Association, similarly with CASA as Canadian Amateur Softball Assocation.

We have a short season (snuck in a game yesterday, too cold today) so you don't hear much from us September-April or so.

Regards.

I hope I would have had the presents of mind to call time when I saw that both teams had the out count wrong and get everyone reset. If I didn't, I would probably just put everyone back where they were since my lack of action put one team or the other in jeopordy.

SC - what lack of action? At most, you should be signalling 2 outs and watching the action. You start directing traffic or calling time during live ball for no apparent reason, and you run into trouble. I, too, have an out when she enters the dugout.

And even if the umpires didn't call her out, she DEFINITELY can't leave the dugout to start running bases.

DEpending on the ages and temperment of the teams you could just put everyone back on the field. If it's older kids or adults then the runner is ruled out once she's enters DB area

It amazes me as I read some of these posts just how bad some of the umpires are that you guys work with. They forget the count, can't remember the number of outs, don't know the rules or don't know how to apply the rules.

Count me in as one of the bad ones then
 

I have forgotten to roll the indicator on a passed ball or roll the out wheel when a player made another play beyond the out. I try to assess the game situation with every batter and if there is significant action during an at bat to reset everything correctly. Aother habit I have tried to get into is to tell the catcher the number of outs after every out to make dang sure I roll it. This is why our association requires the BU to keep an indicator as well.

We do have one blue who has told us if we ever ask him for the count, he will give 0 - 2.:p

Right, at 8&U in-house, reset.

Any umpire with more than just a couple of games under his belt who claims he has never forgotten the count or the number of outs is either delusional or a liar. ;)

And in a single man game, if you forget the count (forget to roll the wheel on your indicator, or can't remember if you did), then your only recourse is to

a) avoid giving the count, and
b) pray for a base hit. :o

If you forget the number of outs, just hope you have a good catcher to help you out (when she gives the number of outs to her team, and nobody objects, then you know!). :D

BTW, what is CSA? Always thought you were a Dixie guy.

I have a CSA belt buckle. Definitely Dixie!

I guess that I must be in the minority. After each pitch, regardless of what happens or if I have to move out of F2's way I automatically advance my indicator. It's become so automatic for me over the past 20+ years that I can honestly say that I can't remember the last time I forgot the count. But if I did and I was working solo I would turn to the scorekeeper and ask what the count was. I wouldn't stop giving the count or pray for a base hit.

How can you forget the outs? Try giving the count after each pitch and repeat the number of outs. It's really not that much to remember and you have your indicator to use.....

It boils down to the umpire not keeping their head in the game.

So, which are you? :D

:) That's why Troy and Gabriella got the part in the High School Musical
The East High Wildcats led by Troy Bolton won the city Basketball Championship
The East High Wildcats led by Gabriella Montez won the 10th annual city Academic competition

Gotta keep your head in the game

We're all in this together

In the original post, it was noted, "The ump was wondering if he had the outs wrong at two but had still not made any call after the strike out." To me, this is lack of action due to the ump not having their head in the game.

If I have two outs and both teams start abandoning their postions, I would first state very loudly, "TWO OUTS." After everyone was set, I would call time to check with the score keepers to ensure how many outs there are.

Leaving the dugout to start running the bases? I agree, that definitely would not happen.

Do you also walk on water, force demons out of man and, into the swine and give the blind sight?

Everyone loses track at sometime or another.

Having reviewed this with others, I believe mcrowder has it right. The ball was live, so the ump can't start doing the coahes' jobs.

So, of the two items at hand, he didn't react too quickly and he let things unfold (which was right) but he should have called the out when the runner returned from the dugout.

p.s.

We don't use "Dixie" here, can't recall what that is (although I know one of you told me a couple years ago ... sorry to whoever that was).

These were 14-15 year olds.

Have a great day.

bobbrix

Yes I do! I also raise the dead and turn water into wine. But I don't think that I can teach you how to read. I didn't say that I never lose track of the count, I said that I can't remember the last time that it happened.

Why does it bother you that I have devloped a habit which helps me not forget the count? Whether you believe (or not) that it has been a very long time since I have lost track of the count or outs doesn't make it any less true. Sorry that my efficiency upsets you.

Dixie is yet another association that provides rulesets for baseball and softball primarily in the Southern US. Very similar rules to Little League, from what I can tell.

Now THAT'S funny!!! :D :D :D

Yes it is. I read it and immediately thought of "I only make one mistake per day. I thought I'd made it earlier today, but realized I was wrong."

I do remember the last time I lost track of the count. Back when I used an indicator as a crutch, a foul ball flew back, hit my hand, and shattered the indicator. Since I was still using this as a crutch, and not as a tool, I could not recall the count at all. Scorebooks didn't match, and neither matched what partner and I could remember (which was also different). So we guessed. Ever since, I've made a habit of telling myself the count before looking or clicking. It works for me - haven't lost one since, and I find that if asked I can usually regurgitate the entire pitch sequence. (And no, I don't use a indicator on the basepaths at all... I wouldn't use it at the plate either except that it's required.)

The question should be "If I lost track of the count and can't rememeber forgetting, did I ever actually forget?"

This event made me think.....I pondered this incident and its value as to using or not using an indicator behind the plate....

...and decided to buy a metal indicator. Thanks :D

I still can't figure out where to buy an indicator long enough to use as a crutch. :)

I have been known to carry a spare indicator in the ball pouch.

tcb - I have spares too. Unfortunately for me in this case, they did not happen to have the correct count on them when the one I was using was shattered. :)