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Thu Apr 06, 2006, 09:22am
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Boo
I have a BOO quesion. Here's the lineup:
Able Baker Charlie Delta Edward Frank George Henry Igloo Igloo is one first base. Able is due up to bat. Instead Charlie bats and gets a base hit, advancing Igloo to 3rd. Before the first pitch (legal or illegal) to Delta, the defense appeals batting out of order. Able is out, Baker bats but we keep Charlie on base, correct? I don't have my books handy, but from memory I recall that the rules state that you only take a player off the bases if they are the batter immediately after the one called out for failing to bat (not the words used, but that's the idea). In this case Charlie is not the batter due up after Able. The rules also state that in this case any score or advance of runners is nullified. Well we can't keep Charlie on base and nullify the advance completely. We keep Charlie at 1st and advance Igloo to 2nd. Is this correct? Thanks!
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Gwinnett Umpires Association Multicounty Softball Association Multicounty Basketball Officials Association 
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Thu Apr 06, 2006, 10:43am
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NFHS 7-1-2 Penalty 2
When an improper batter becomes a runner or is put out and the defensive team appeals to the umpire before the next pitch (legal or illegal), or prior to an intentional base on balls (S.P.), or before the infielders leave the diamond if a half-inning is ending. The umpire shall declare the batter who should have batted out (not the improper batter). The improper batter's time at bat is negated and she is returned to the dugout/bench area. All runners who were not declared out must return the the base occupied at the time of the pitch. If a runner advances because of a stolen base, wild pitch, passed ball (F.P.) or an illegal pitch (F.P.) while the improper batter is at bat, such advance is legal. Able is out. Charlie goes back to the bench. Igloo goes back to first base. Baker is up.
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Thu Apr 06, 2006, 10:44am
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Here's what I think.....
Able is out, All advances are nullified, so Igloo goes back to first and Charlie goes back to the dugout, Baker is now the correct batter.
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Thu Apr 06, 2006, 10:59am
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I don't agree
The rule book clearly states that no one shall be removed from the bases except the player who will now bat in their proper place. For example, assuming the following lineup
Able Baker Charlie Delta If Able is due up but Baker bats and reaches base, if the defense appeals before the first pitch to Charlie, Able is out and Baker is removed from the bases to bat. However, if Able is due up to bat but Charlie bats and reaches base safely, when the defense appeals Charlis is not removed because he is not the next batter. Able is out and Baker bats.
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Gwinnett Umpires Association Multicounty Softball Association Multicounty Basketball Officials Association
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Thu Apr 06, 2006, 11:02am
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Quote:
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Scott It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to have to paint it.
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Thu Apr 06, 2006, 11:07am
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Don't have my book with me
ASA rule set. I believe it is 7.2.x.4. I'm not sure of the rule number but I know its in rule 7 and part 4. Sorry I can't be more precise, but that should get you close.
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Gwinnett Umpires Association Multicounty Softball Association Multicounty Basketball Officials Association
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Thu Apr 06, 2006, 11:12am
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Quote:
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Tom
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Thu Apr 06, 2006, 11:17am
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The rule you are talking about is ASA 7-2-C-4. Here is what ASA was trying to say (quoting the NFHS book, which says it better)
Quote:
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Tom
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Thu Apr 06, 2006, 10:52am
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Quote:
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Scott It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to have to paint it.
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Thu Apr 06, 2006, 10:56am
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Everybody types faster than me. Of course, I am at work, trying to impart knowledge to a bunch of young 'uns, so I frequently get sidetracked while reading and responding to posts.
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Scott It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to have to paint it.
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Thu Apr 06, 2006, 12:41pm
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Quote:
COSTELLO: Look Abbott, if you're the coach, you must know all the players. ABBOTT: I certainly do. COSTELLO: Well you know I've never met the guys. So you'll have to tell me their names, and then I'll know who's playing on the team. ABBOTT: Oh, I'll tell you their names, but you know it seems to me they give these ball players now-a-days very peculiar names. COSTELLO: You mean funny names? ABBOTT: Strange names, pet names... like Dizzy Dean... COSTELLO: His brother Daffy. ABBOTT: Daffy Dean... COSTELLO: And their French cousin. ABBOTT: French? COSTELLO: Goofe. ABBOTT: Goofe Dean. Well, let's see, we have on the bags, Who's on first, What's on second, I Don't Know is on third... COSTELLO: That's what I want to find out. ABBOTT: I say Who's on first, What's on second, I Don't Know's on third. COSTELLO: Are you the manager? ABBOTT: Yes. COSTELLO: You gonna be the coach too? ABBOTT: Yes. COSTELLO: And you don't know the fellows' names? ABBOTT: Well I should. COSTELLO: Well then who's on first? ABBOTT: Yes. COSTELLO: I mean the fellow's name. ABBOTT: Who. COSTELLO: The guy on first. ABBOTT: Who. COSTELLO: The first baseman. ABBOTT: Who. COSTELLO: The guy playing... ABBOTT: Who is on first! COSTELLO: I'm asking YOU who's on first. ABBOTT: That's the man's name. COSTELLO: That's who's name? ABBOTT: Yes. COSTELLO: Well go ahead and tell me. ABBOTT: That's it. COSTELLO: That's who? ABBOTT: Yes. COSTELLO: Look, you gotta first baseman? ABBOTT: Certainly. COSTELLO: Who's playing first? ABBOTT: That's right. COSTELLO: When you pay off the first baseman every month, who gets the money? ABBOTT: Every dollar of it. COSTELLO: All I'm trying to find out is the fellow's name on first base. ABBOTT: Who. COSTELLO: The guy that gets... ABBOTT: That's it. COSTELLO: Who gets the money... ABBOTT: He does, every dollar. Sometimes his wife comes down and collects it. COSTELLO: Whose wife? ABBOTT: Yes. ABBOTT: What's wrong with that? COSTELLO: Look, all I wanna know is when you sign up the first baseman, how does he sign his name? ABBOTT: Who. COSTELLO: The guy. ABBOTT: Who. COSTELLO: How does he sign... ABBOTT: That's how he signs it. COSTELLO: Who? ABBOTT: Yes. COSTELLO: All I'm trying to find out is what's the guy's name on first base. ABBOTT: No. What is on second base. COSTELLO: I'm not asking you who's on second. ABBOTT: Who's on first. COSTELLO: One base at a time! ABBOTT: Well, don't change the players around. COSTELLO: I'm not changing nobody! ABBOTT: Take it easy, buddy. COSTELLO: I'm only asking you, who's the guy on first base? ABBOTT: That's right. COSTELLO: Ok. ABBOTT: All right. COSTELLO: What's the guy's name on first base? ABBOTT: No. What is on second. COSTELLO: I'm not asking you who's on second. ABBOTT: Who's on first. COSTELLO: I don't know. ABBOTT: He's on third, we're not talking about him. COSTELLO: Now how did I get on third base? ABBOTT: Why you mentioned his name. COSTELLO: If I mentioned the third baseman's name, who did I say is playing third? ABBOTT: No. Who's playing first. COSTELLO: What's on first? ABBOTT: What's on second. COSTELLO: I don't know. ABBOTT: He's on third. COSTELLO: There I go, back on third again! COSTELLO: Would you just stay on third base and don't go off it. ABBOTT: All right, what do you want to know? COSTELLO: Now who's playing third base? ABBOTT: Why do you insist on putting Who on third base? COSTELLO: What am I putting on third. ABBOTT: No. What is on second. COSTELLO: You don't want who on second? ABBOTT: Who is on first. COSTELLO: I don't know. ABBOTT & COSTELLO: Third base! COSTELLO: Look, you gotta outfield? ABBOTT: Sure. COSTELLO: The left fielder's name? ABBOTT: Why. COSTELLO: I just thought I'd ask you. ABBOTT: Well, I just thought I'd tell ya. COSTELLO: Then tell me who's playing left field. ABBOTT: Who's playing first. COSTELLO: I'm not... stay out of the infield! I want to know what's the guy's name in left field? ABBOTT: No, What is on second. COSTELLO: I'm not asking you who's on second. ABBOTT: Who's on first! COSTELLO: I don't know. ABBOTT & COSTELLO: Third base! COSTELLO: The left fielder's name? ABBOTT: Why. COSTELLO: Because! ABBOTT: Oh, he's centerfield. COSTELLO: Look, You gotta pitcher on this team? ABBOTT: Sure. COSTELLO: The pitcher's name? ABBOTT: Tomorrow. COSTELLO: You don't want to tell me today? ABBOTT: I'm telling you now. COSTELLO: Then go ahead. ABBOTT: Tomorrow! COSTELLO: What time? ABBOTT: What time what? COSTELLO: What time tomorrow are you gonna tell me who's pitching? ABBOTT: Now listen. Who is not pitching. COSTELLO: I'll break your arm, you say who's on first! I want to know what's the pitcher's name? ABBOTT: What's on second. COSTELLO: I don't know. ABBOTT & COSTELLO: Third base! COSTELLO: Gotta a catcher? ABBOTT: Certainly. COSTELLO: The catcher's name? ABBOTT: Today. COSTELLO: Today, and tomorrow's pitching. ABBOTT: Now you've got it. COSTELLO: All we got is a couple of days on the team. COSTELLO: You know I'm a catcher too. ABBOTT: So they tell me. COSTELLO: I get behind the plate to do some fancy catching, Tomorrow's pitching on my team and a heavy hitter gets up. Now the heavy hitter bunts the ball. When he bunts the ball, me, being a good catcher, I'm gonna throw the guy out at first base. So I pick up the ball and throw it to who? ABBOTT: Now that's the first thing you've said right. COSTELLO: I don't even know what I'm talking about! ABBOTT: That's all you have to do. COSTELLO: Is to throw the ball to first base. ABBOTT: Yes! COSTELLO: Now who's got it? ABBOTT: Naturally. COSTELLO: Look, if I throw the ball to first base, somebody's gotta get it. Now who has it? ABBOTT: Naturally. COSTELLO: Who? ABBOTT: Naturally. COSTELLO: Naturally? ABBOTT: Naturally. COSTELLO: So I pick up the ball and I throw it to Naturally. ABBOTT: No you don't, you throw the ball to Who. COSTELLO: Naturally. ABBOTT: That's different. COSTELLO: That's what I said. ABBOTT: You're not saying it... COSTELLO: I throw the ball to Naturally. ABBOTT: You throw it to Who. COSTELLO: Naturally. ABBOTT: That's it. COSTELLO: That's what I said! ABBOTT: You ask me. COSTELLO: I throw the ball to who? ABBOTT: Naturally. COSTELLO: Now you ask me. ABBOTT: You throw the ball to Who? COSTELLO: Naturally. ABBOTT: That's it. COSTELLO: Same as you! Same as YOU! I throw the ball to who. Whoever it is drops the ball and the guy runs to second. Who picks up the ball and throws it to What. What throws it to I Don't Know. I Don't Know throws it back to Tomorrow, Triple play. Another guy gets up and hits a long fly ball to Because. Why? I don't know! He's on third and I don't give a darn! ABBOTT: What? COSTELLO: I said I don't give a darn! ABBOTT: Oh, that's our shortstop.  Igloo is not on first...Who is. Home | Forum | FTP | List of Shows | Browse Shows | Login | Contact Us © Copyright 2006 Orion Internet Services
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Thu Apr 06, 2006, 01:10pm
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Quote:
Igloo is now on 1B with one out more than at the beginning of the play. The next three batters are Baker, Charlie and Delta. Rule 7.2.D.2 ONLY. No other rules are applicable to this scenario.
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The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
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