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-   -   Dropped Second Strike (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/25891-dropped-second-strike.html)

mcrowder Tue Apr 04, 2006 09:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueskysblue
By the way, I have read in the NFHS Baseball Case Book (couldn't find it in the softball case book) (I know, I know, baseball and softball are different games) that a runner who runs down to First on Ball Three, thinking it was Ball Four can be penalized for delay of game, with no mention of the pitcher being ready to pitch.
Fed baseball has stupid rules to combat a problem that I don't believe really exists much anymore.

mcrowder Tue Apr 04, 2006 09:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcblue13
I see the rule you are citing but I have to question the "even when not entitled to do so" part. If a runner is running on a dropped 2nd strike, she is not running on the dropped third strike rule. Also, if she is running on a dropped third strike but 1st is occupied with less than 2 outs, she is not running on the dropped third strike rule. In both cases, she is running in violation of the rules. 8-2-1

I realize that I am much less experienced that most of you on this forum and maybe out of my league to reply but if the conditions for the dropped third strike rule are not met, how can that rule be applied?

That is why I thought it would be interference if the players in the dugout are yelling "run, run" to a batter on a dropped third strike when she is not entitled to run and that action confuses the catcher into throwing down.

But when I look at 2-32, interference is the confusion of a player "attempting to make a play." So maybe confusing a player to attempt a play would not be classified as interference.
Well... if you get right down to it, if this is the 2nd strike, the batter is neither a batter-runner nor a runner. Thus the rule that a "runner" being called for interference does not apply to this player.

mcrowder Tue Apr 04, 2006 09:40am
By the way, did anyone ask the catcher why she didn't just throw it to the pitcher covering home?

I agree with Mike. Barring intent here, this is just a dumb-move-catcher.

softball_junky Tue Apr 04, 2006 01:31pm
I have not done FED FP in several years. I am just getting back into FP (ASA) this year. There was something in the FED case book about running to 1B when the D3K rules was not into effect. The umpire was to "forcefully announce" the batter was out, ball remains alive. Has this rule been changed?

CecilOne Tue Apr 04, 2006 01:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by softball_junky
I have not done FED FP in several years. I am just getting back into FP (ASA) this year. There was something in the FED case book about running to 1B when the D3K rules was not into effect. The umpire was to "forcefully announce" the batter was out, ball remains alive. Has this rule been changed?
No, that ruling in that case is still there, but says nothing about if the batter does not hear or ignores the umpire. Also, the ruling just instructs the umpire, with no effect on player specified.

mcrowder Tue Apr 04, 2006 02:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne
No, that ruling in that case is still there, but says nothing about if the batter does not hear or ignores the umpire. Also, the ruling just instructs the umpire, with no effect on player specified.
And it just applies to actual dropped third strikes where the batter does not become a batter-runner. It doesn't apply to cases where batter runs on a 2nd strike erroneously.

Dakota Tue Apr 04, 2006 02:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrowder
And it just applies to actual dropped third strikes where the batter does not become a batter-runner. It doesn't apply to cases where batter runs on a 2nd strike erroneously.
Duh.... why not?? http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/sp...smiley-008.gif

CecilOne Tue Apr 04, 2006 03:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota
Either I totally misunderstand "what" the "why not" applies to, if so please excuseme and explain why; or it's obvious that the case we just referred to applies to when the batter actually is out. And it doesn't answer the original question anyway.

mcrowder Tue Apr 04, 2006 04:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota
Duh..... because I think you'd look damn stupid "forcefully announcing that the batter is out" on strike two.

Dakota Wed Apr 05, 2006 01:14am
Sorry, guys, it was a joke... some mythical goof asking. The answer was obvious. I guess the joke wasn't.

mcrowder Wed Apr 05, 2006 07:24am
OK - Gotcha.

CecilOne Wed Apr 05, 2006 07:59am
Me too. :D :D :D Guess I was rushing too much that day.

Skahtboi Wed Apr 05, 2006 09:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota
Sorry, guys, it was a joke... some mythical goof asking. The answer was obvious. I guess the joke wasn't.
I got it! :D

CecilOne Tue Apr 11, 2006 08:08pm
Steve,
wrt "That rule is telling you that running in a situation when the third strike rule does not entitle the BR to run is not interference. It (that line) was added about 5 or 6 years ago for exactly that reason. The explanation and examples given that year was exactly that; it is not in our purview to judge if the runner runs because she mistakes the situation, or if it is intentional."
Do you have an available reference, copy of a ruling, or anything in writing that we can use to document this for those who disagree?
BTW, at the moment, the rule book and lack of a case leaves me undecided about these situations.

AtlUmpSteve Tue Apr 11, 2006 09:18pm
My personal collection of ASA rulebooks stops (starts) in 1999, the year I separated (and my ex decided what I no longer needed). If Mike or someone else with a historic collection of ASA rulebooks (WMB?) can go back before that, I believe that the one year of calling it a dead ball (to stop umpires from calling it interference) if the retired batter ran was about 1996 or 1997, then the rule was changed to the current live ball but cannot be interference the next year (1997 or 1998) with the written rationale for the change in the front of the ASA rulebook.


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