Banter
 

This made me wonder
How much banter or "friendly conversation" is appropriate before or during the game.
Is it okay to tell a catcher that she is not framing the pitch well enough to get a strike called on the outside?

Is it okay to tell a fielder that she had a play until she dropped a ball?

Is it okay to joke with the the catcher to "take care of you" if you are the plate man?

Is it okay to ask a player how their season is going assuming you have met them in a previous game?

Is it okay to chew the fat with the first base coach as the defense warms up?

Lets take this item by item:

1. Whats this 'framing' you talking about???:confused:

2. SOMETIMES..big help I know...lol..seriously..depends on the game...hey should be able to figure that one out by themselves...

3,4,5 -ABSOLUTELY...especially for high school/JO/PONY...youre not a robot out there, and being superficially fiendly with the kids doesn't hurt! Especially with your catcher - STORY: Had a 16U PONY qualifier, and had a C with THE greatest personality - chattery, always hustling with a smile - so of course,me being me, I had to yak with her ..encouraging her...just generally keeping her relaxed..especially since her P didn't have the greatest control! Sure enough, around the 5th or so, she gets crossed up on a pitch and I get it right on the forearm....raising a nasty lil bump (which became a nasty lil bruise later!)...boy, was she SO embarassed...kept on apologizing over and over..and I kept going 'hey its no problem'...'hey part of the game', etc, etc....so...later on I had a game in this fall practice league we have round here..and Guess Who is catching? And she STILL was apologizing.....and Guess What AGAIN??? Yup......and it STILL wasn't her fault (same P actually!)and she was SO flustered....so yeah, if you see the same kids over and over (or even adults) you can't HELP a little chatter...

and to put this in another perspective, we have a hs program around here, where the kids are FORBIDDEN to talk to us...and boy do we hate that...(we have other problems with this program too...)

as long as it doesn't interfere with the game..why not??

1. I would not, even if asked.

2. I would if answering a question. I would not speak first.

3. I don't but do not feel a sentence or two like this is inappropriate.

4. Sure, but again a sentence or two, being cordial.

5. I will be cordial with a greeting. I think it would most always be inappropriate to chew the fat between each inning, depending on the league, e.g. in coach's pitch this might be fine.

Uh, no. It's not even ok to THINK that. Framing a pitch should never be encouraged by an umpire - often the framing is done to show up an umpire, or to show to the world that PU blew this strike call. You should never need the catcher to frame ANYTHING for you to be able to call it correctly.

Can't see why you would want to say this.

Sure - no problem at all with any of these. Don't get TOO friendly, but a little light banter is fine. Don't make the mistake of being friendly with only one team (I've seen this happen) though - it can be interpreted wrong by the other side.

I've always been taught that the BU should stand out in short right field during team warm-ups. This is a neutral area and removes the possibility for the umpire to engage in any kind of conversation with the game participants (players or coaches).

As the PU, I've always been taught to stand near the foul line, about 20-feet away from homeplate during warm-ups. I alternate between the 1st baseline and the 3rd baseline. I always stand on the side of the defense since there are generally less people in the nearby dugout - thereby less of an opportunity to engage in a conversation. I focus on the pitcher warming-up and am quick to give the catcher another ball on a wild pitch.

This routine is designed with two things in mind:
1) It is consistent and looks professional
2) It keeps the umpire out of between inning banter

When I work the plate, I don't like working with a partner who feels the need to come toward me and have a conversation during warm-ups. If there's something important to discuss, fine, but not to discuss his favorite TV show.

I particularly don't like my partner to approach me after a controversial inning. This makes the umpires look unsure, overly concerned, and conspiratorial.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

TC Blue,

My goal on the field is to have as little contact with the coaches and players as possible. I'm there to umpire not to bond.

Is it okay to tell a catcher that she is not framing the pitch well enough to get a strike called on the outside?

I would try adjusting my stance to get a better look. If the catcher is moving her glove trying to sell the pitch, I'll ask her to frame the pitch.

Is it okay to tell a fielder that she had a play until she dropped a ball?

Why would you want to say that? Are you there to coach or umpire?

Is it okay to joke with the the catcher to "take care of you" if you are the plate man?

My conversations with the catcher are using her as messenger to her teammates and coaches. If the catcher makes a good block or takes a foul ball off herself I'll usually say "Nice block".

Is it okay to ask a player how their season is going assuming you have met them in a previous game?

Why is that information important to you? I am civil to the players but try never to initiate frivolous conversation.

Is it okay to chew the fat with the first base coach as the defense warms up?

Once again I ask why. This coach that you've been bonding with could turn on you in a heartbeat if s/he believes you blew a call. Remain civil and postion yourself in the correct between inning position.

I ask again - why would ANYONE want/need/ask the catcher to frame the ball? It's WAY past the plate at this point, and if you need a clue from the catcher, you're standing in the wrong place. If you EVER alter a call based on whether catcher frames it well, you're not doing your job.

When I suggest that a catcher frame a pitch it's letting the catcher know to keep the glove still. (I've already decided my ball/strike call as the ball came through the zone.)

So then why do they need to keep the glove still again? If not your benefit then whose?

Just curious. I dont do FP. But it seems if you are telling a C to frame the pitch better, then they may delay to make a play on a SB attempt when the pitch is a close one with 2 strikes. They may also have the idea that if they do it the way that you want it they will gain some calls. It may be best to take that one out of the banter repetiore

Still not getting a "why" out of this.

Why are you letting a catcher know to keep the glove still? You don't (well... shouldn't) care. And as they get older, this behavior can be reacted to negatively by some umpires, as it is taken as showing up the umpire. Not to mention that you should not be coaching the players anyway... what if something else happens and their following of your directions to frame the pitch costs them a possible out somewhere?

I don't tell catchers to frame a pitch. To me, it seems like instructing the players. I think there are exceptions, though. For example, there was a situation this past season where the catcher would catch outside pitches and attempt to "pull" them into the strike zone. I informed her quietly that action was not going to change my call from "ball" to "strike" on an outside pitch. After she stopped fooling around with the glove (which was getting her coaches all worked) we had a nice game. I considered that comment to be well worth it and not out of bounds.

I'm not going to go out of my way to start conversations with players or coaches, but I will certainly be polite. Between league play and tournaments I see many teams many times over the season, and in those situations it is hard to avoid a couple sentences of friendly conversation.

SF - I have no problem with such a comment, and it makes sense to do so, especially when catcher's actions are simply making things worse.

Your comment is, of course, the exact opposite of what Michael is saying and I am disagreeing with, and thus makes a helluva lot of sense.

Right with you Dave. Except the alternating sides. I have found no matter where I go up the third base line F5 seems to want to stand in front of me to take her warm-ups. I really don't care until F3 starts taking her grounders and throwing hard to F5. I have gone further up towrds 3rd, but that gets me too close to the 3rd base dugout.
I agree with your statement about the idle partner chatter. Don't come in to talk about the blonde in the third row, I am not facing that way :o

Amen!

Wait until you see a pitcher with a good curve, or a change up that drops off a table. These pitches really can't be framed well. Gotta call 'em where they pass through the zone.

mcrowder: I was just thinking perhaps thats what Michael means... it was the situation that came to mind where I can see making a comment like that to the catcher.

Oh, and always good when someone thinks I make sense :)

Since I started the thread, let me explain what brought it to mind.
One of our senior Umps in clinic said that he never gives a strike to a pitcher when F2 turns the mitt and allows the ball to bring her hand around her right knee (outside pitch to RH batter). But, he will tell the catch that if she wants that pitch she should frame it by not letting the ball carry her hand around.

The same is true on the low pitch. If F2 turns the mitt over, it is a ball low but if F2 catches it with the mitt upright it will more likely be called a strike.

My thinking as soon as it was said, was "what about the strike zone?"
But this ump has done a ton of ball including state playoffs and NCAA and is very well respected.

I don't think the catcher matters except to give F1 the target. I have called a number of passed balls strikes.

The real trick with umpiring, especially with calling balls and strikes, is consistency. We all know this. Those are obviously his tools for being consistent. If they work, why question them?

I have heard others say similar things, even attended a clinic once where the clinician said that if you see the catcher turn her glove to catch the pitch, you should probably call that pitch a ball.

Consistency is important; but so is believability. No one in top level ball believes a pitch that the catcher cannot handle effectively is a strike, and you will get more grief and loss of respect if you call that pitch a strike, even if it is.

If the pitcher misses the outside corner target back to the inside corner (roughly a 20" miss), and the catcher has to dive to make the adjustment, you are a sitting duck if you call that pitch a strike. No one believes it is; even the team whom you gave the benefit of the correct call. The other calls based on the movement of the catcher's glove are an extension of that philosophy.

I've heard some very good umpires in this area state that they PRIMARILY watch WHERE (and HOW) the catcher catches the ball in determining whether the pitch is a strike or not. They are less concerned about the exact dimensions of the strikezone and are more concerned with how the pitch <i>appears</i>.

Surprisingly, this actually works quite well. So often umpiring is not so much about being 100% accurate as it is about <i>appearing</i> to be 100% accurate.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

My high school daughter has caught for years and has gotten good at framing. She sells a few pitches now and then, but most umpires get it right.

For her talking with the BU is part of the game, she's an outgoing kid. However, she probably wouldn't appreciate any comment that begins with "you're not", unless it relates directly to the rules.

Sticky point for me when I'm calling is how much information, if any, to give the catcher on a ball that barely misses the zone. I'll sometimes say "close", but avoid using "low", "high", etc.

For her talking with the BU is part of the game, she's an outgoing kid. However, she probably wouldn't appreciate any comment that begins with "you're not", unless it relates directly to the rules.

RanD,

I'm thinking you ment talking with the plate umpire (PU).

RanD,

I'm thinking you ment talking with the plate umpire (PU).



Correct, thats what I meant. Thanks!

I, too, have heard the things mentioned in David's and Steve's posts. I try to primarily focus on the ball as it comes through the zone, but on a borderline pitch, I may use the location and actions of the catcher's mitt to help decide.

Back to the original question regarding friendly banter - the mantra I was taught is "polite - but professional". I will respond to a greeting or question, I will not accept water from either team (I bring my own), and I will not attempt to coach players. If a player makes a good play and I have the opportunity, I will tell them - hey, nice play.

To add a further element to the question - do you follow the same guidelines off the field? The situation I am thinking about is at tournaments with coaches and players milling around and you may have a game off.

not unless shes REALLY loud.....;)