High school JV game

No one on, BR hits to LF, she rounds 1B and heads for 2B. The throw to 2B is about 2 feet off the base toward LF in a direct line from 1B/2B. The ball gets past F4 and as F4 turns to pursue the ball the BR overruns 2B and they have contact. There was no attempt by the BR to go for 3B, she just over ran the base. F4 had no chance of retrieving the ball to tag the BR before she took a couple of steps back to 2B (the ball rolled 10 feet or so away from 2B & no one was backing her up).

What would you guys have called?

I doubt I would have called anything. If the runner wasn't attempting to advance and the fielder had no opportunity to make a play, there is nothing to call.

While all the criteria was met for OBS, from the way I read the situation, it's still your judgement where the runner should go. From the way I take your description, I would have left the runner at 2nd base. No play was made on her after the OBS, so no dead ball.

This is obstruction. Fielder without the ball, and not in the act of fielding a batted ball impeded a runner. Granted, a runner getting no where positive, but still entitled to unrestricted base running. But, under the circumstances, the award is 2nd base, the base the runner would have earned absent the obstruction.

A smarter runner (obviously this wasn't one) would have attempted 3rd base, as she could not be put out there, by the obstruction rule; if out, then "dead ball" , and award the obstruction penalty of safe at 2nd.

Steve is spot on.

It is OBS. No matter what you believe the runner did, was doing or was going to do, as the umpire, you call OBS.

I know it's hard for some people to grasp this (it shouldn't be), but OBS is not a penalty-laden violation. You don't make the call to allow the runner a free-rein on the base paths, but to protect them from being put out because of a defender's mistake.

Thanks for the replies.

I didn't call OBS at the time but as I re-read the play in my head I think that I should have. Maybe the runner would have made an attempt to go to 3B if she hadn't been OBS. I doubt that she would have but you never know with these young players.

I guess I don't have a clear picture of the play. I pictured F4 off the base in the outfield when the ball gets by her. The runner overruns the base into the outfield and as F4 turns to run back into the infield there is a collision, all taking place in the outfield a few steps from the base, no attempt having been made to reach third. How can you call OBS on a runner who has run into the outfield to make contact with a fielder. I say no call.

You need to reread the play. It was a couple feet off 2B.

It is OBS because the fielder doesn't have possession of the ball. A no call leaves the runner hanging out to dry due to a defender impeding their progress.

BTW, there is no rule preventing the runner from crossing 2B, running out and around the LF three times and to wherever.

This has to be obstruction! Even if the runner had not intended to advance when the throw was coming toward second once the ball was misplayed she may have had the chance to advance... had it not been for the fielder getting in her way without the ball in her possession. Nothin like fun at the ole' ball park! Take third base young lady!

Why?

Yes, Al. Why? Inquiring minds want to know.

All we've learned from this thread is that there are a good number of people who don't understand obstruction at all, nor how to implement it.

This is TEXTBOOK obstruction, and the runner is protected from being tagged out between 2nd and 3rd. But this does not (I had to erase "obviously" here, because apparently it's not obvious to everyone) mean the runner gets 3rd base. The PROTECTION given an obstruction is one thing. The AWARD is a separate thing. The award in this case is 2nd base.

"The ball gets past F4 and as F4 turns to pursue the ball the BR overruns 2B and they have contact. There was no attempt by the BR to go for 3B, she just over ran the base. F4 had no chance of retrieving the ball to tag the BR before she took a couple of steps back to 2B (the ball rolled 10 feet or so away from 2B & no one was backing her up)".

I was surprised when I read this play, because I just seen the very same thing happen twice in the last week here in TN.

As the old saying goes...One learns something new everyday. In the description of the play I wrongly thought the runner should be awarded third? Why did I think this? Because the runner saw the ball was booted by F4 and had rolled about ten feet farther away from 3rd base, since the throw came in from left field. If these are 10 and under players the runner would have had a good shot at making it to third by the time F4, or any other fielder, had run down the ball and tried to make a play at third. The fielder made contact without having possession of the ball after the runner already passed 2nd base and the ball was rolling into the out-field. This exact same situation happened in two different games I was wathching last week...(one was a practice game with no Umpire, and the coach awarded the runner 3rd) and the other game an Umpire awarded 3rd base. Both girls were awarded 3rd even though both runners went back to 2nd after the obstruction. The Coach and the Umpire, were both wrong. I would have been wrong too. This will be my second year umpiring. My first 3 games start April 3rd. I will be going over the rule book intently for the next several days. I now know, and I'm glad I read this thread, that the runner is only protected from being put out between 2nd and 3rd in this situation, but does not get 3rd base. The award in this case is 2nd base. I know if I'm ever coaching 3rd base in 10 & under and this situation happens I'm telling my girl to advance, once I see it get away from F4 and contact is made, for what has she got to lose? If she makes it safely to 3rd she stays there, if she is thrown out she gets awarded 2nd base. Thanks guys! Especially Mike and mcrowder.

I have a question. Runners on 1st and 2nd... a batter hits a ball to the pitcher and another fielder obstructs the girl that's advancing to 3rd base. The pitcher throws the ball to 3rd before the runner reaches the base. The obstructed runner cannot be awarded 2nd as 2nd already has a girl there. In this case is she awarded 3rd because of the Obstruction? Thanks again...

In the play you present here, even if there was no force, I would probably have awarded the runner 3rd. (Of course, this is a HTBT play.) However, in the scenario you present, yes, the runner would receive 3rd.

Remember, the penalty for OBS is the umpire awards the base to the runner that, in his/her judgement, they felt the runner would have obtained had the OBS not occurred.

"In the play you present here, even if there was no force, I would probably have awarded the runner 3rd. (Of course, this is a HTBT play.) However, in the scenario you present, yes, the runner would receive 3rd".

Remember, the penalty for OBS is the umpire awards the base to the runner that, in his/her judgement, they felt the runner would have obtained had the OBS not occurred.

Thanks, That's what I thought, but you say (probably award 3rd, HTBT) You also said ...(the penalty for OBS is the umpire awards the base to the runner that, in his/her judgement, they felt the runner would have obtained had the OBS not occurred.). So if the umpire does not think the runner would have been safe (had there been no obstruction) would he/she not award 3rd base? Let's say in the play I presented the pitcher gets the ball immediately and throws to 3rd and the ball gets there way ahead of the runner, who was only slightly brushed by the obstructing fielder. (runner hardly lost a step) If 2nd is not open, an umpire may or may not award the obstructed runner 3rd? He may call the runner out? If 2nd is open the runner is protected between 2nd and 3rd, and cannot be called out. I have to get this clear in my mind. It's not always easy to understand the rules as written. I have to hurry my grand baby is in a hurry to go out to lunch so Poppa can get her a happy meal... :) Thanks!

If second is not open(implying a force), yet the runner is OBS going to third, then you would have no choice but to award the runner third base. Remember, the rule of thumb is that the runner can not be put out between the bases in which she was obstructed.(Though there certainly are cases, such as an appeal on a missed base, where this can occur.) You would not want to reward the defense for their infraction(OBS), no matter how slight you may perceive it.

My comments were for this play only. If I misled you to think that the award is NEVER third base, I apologize. It could be, in the cases you witnessed, that the umpire felt that the baserunner WOULD HAVE achieved 3rd base without the OBS, so the award was possibly correct.

What is important to remember is that the award A) is determined at the time of the obstruction, and B) is the base the umpire thought at that moment that the player would have reached had the obstruction occurred.

There are other rulesets (notably baseball) where obstruction is intended to carry a penalty - in ASA the obstruction award is intended to A) prevent an out that would not have occurred if the OBS hadn't happened and B) nullify the OBS and "set things right"

"Remember, the rule of thumb is that the runner can not be put out between the bases in which she was obstructed.(Though there certainly are cases, such as an appeal on a missed base, where this can occur.) You would not want to reward the defense for their infraction(OBS), no matter how slight you may perceive it".

Thanks,

It's clear as can be now, thanks to you, mcrowder, and Mike. There's one thing that I don't ever want to happen, and that is to be wrong on the metrics of a call. It's bad enough to second guess a close call, that makes the difference in who wins or losses, but to find out after a game, or on protest, that I made the wrong call because I didn't know the correct ruling is something that would be hard for me to live with. I know everyone that respects the game feels the same way. And I believe those who do respect the game really learn quickly from one's mistakes, because they don't want the same ones to happen again. It's one thing to study the rules and quite another to be in live action on the field. Thanks guys... Al

OK, the more I think about it I can accept that this was OBS. I realize there is no rule against the runner taking whatever path she chooses, I was just using the fact that no attempt was being made to reach third as my justification for a no-call. I now see that was incorrect.