Right Umpire Make The Call

IRISHMAFIA

Originally posted by BretMan
Baseball umpires will leave the plate in pretty much the exact same situations as when softball umpires do.

But, back to the softball topic...

From the original post: Runner on second, umpire in "C", batter hits slow roller to F4. From the description, it sounds as if the BU moved into the diamond on this hit (behind the pitching area).

Isn't that a violation of the "inside-outside" theory. Shouldn't the BU stay outside the diamond on a ball hit on the infield, and only come inside on balls hit to the outfield?

Not necessarily. The "C" is a long way from 1B. If the BU can move toward 1B to make the call, s/he should. However, you better damn well pray that F4 doesn't decide to go somewhere else beside 1B on the play. Because of that possibility, the BU should not cross the direct line between F4 and 3B until F4 has released the ball toward 1B.

whiskers_ump

On this play, BU watched, saw that throw going to 1B moved in for good look,
and while watching to be sure of catch, touch of base, did not see the OBS
(fake tag), he could not have made the call. I know, I was BU.

Also, really not suprising, found out that coach is an umpire, LL.

CecilOne

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

Originally posted by BretMan
... snip ... Isn't that a violation of the "inside-outside" theory. Shouldn't the BU stay outside the diamond on a ball hit on the infield, and only come inside on balls hit to the outfield?

Not necessarily. The "C" is a long way from 1B. If the BU can move toward 1B to make the call, s/he should. However, you better damn well pray that F4 doesn't decide to go somewhere else beside 1B on the play. Because of that possibility, the BU should not cross the direct line between F4 and 3B until F4 has released the ball toward 1B.

1) Better yet if time allows, BU read the batted ball and be past the F4 to F6/3rd line before the catch, but not to the F4-F2 line.

2) The "inside-outside" theory usually means being on the opposite side of the "base line" from the ball. Once the ball is hit to F4 when in C, as IM said, the BU would be farther away than needed by staying outside the "base line".

IRISHMAFIA

Originally posted by CecilOne
1) Better yet if time allows, BU read the batted ball and be past the F4 to F6/3rd line before the catch, but not to the F4-F2 line.

[/B]

That sounds good, but if you think about it, if F4 does decide to go to 3B with the throw, that is the BU's call and s/he would be moving away from position and possibly in the way of a throwback to 1B.

I guess a lot would depend on where the BU actually started in relation to the defensive set-up and the timing of R1 advancing to 3B.

CecilOne

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

Originally posted by CecilOne
1) Better yet if time allows, BU read the batted ball and be past the F4 to F6/3rd line before the catch, but not to the F4-F2 line.

That sounds good, but if you think about it, if F4 does decide to go to 3B with the throw, that is the BU's call and s/he would be moving away from position and possibly in the way of a throwback to 1B.

I guess a lot would depend on where the BU actually started in relation to the defensive set-up and the timing of R1 advancing to 3B. [/B]

Right of course, but if the throw goes to 3rd, it would be coming from inside the 2nd-3rd line, so I would rather be inside and facing instead of moving parallel to the runner on the outside. That's bad enough on steals of 3rd.

booker227

Inside outside: BU starts on the outside of the defensive players, and after watching the ball, the BU moves inside to make the call.
Two man crew responsibilies: single runner,the BU takes that runner around to third, then the PU takes the runner if she runs for home.
Two or more runners, the BU takes the lead runner to second, and if the runner goes for third, she becomes the PU's responsibility as the BU settles into a position to cover the other bases, and if needed, come to home and cover for the PU who is up the line at third.
Obstruction is the responsibility of all umpires on the field.
BU's, let the ball take you into the play. Important here is to watch the ball and let it tell you where the play is going. Do not over commit, but move easily into the proper position.

IRISHMAFIA

Originally posted by booker227
Inside outside: BU starts on the outside of the defensive players, and after watching the ball, the BU moves inside to make the call.
Two man crew responsibilies: single runner,the BU takes that runner around to third, then the PU takes the runner if she runs for home.
Two or more runners, the BU takes the lead runner to second, and if the runner goes for third, she becomes the PU's responsibility as the BU settles into a position to cover the other bases, and if needed, come to home and cover for the PU who is up the line at third.

hhhhhmmmmmmm......?

Sort of what I was thinking.

CecilOne

Originally posted by booker227
Inside outside: BU starts on the outside of the defensive players, and after watching the ball, the BU moves inside to make the call.
Two man crew responsibilies: single runner,the BU takes that runner around to third, then the PU takes the runner if she runs for home.
Two or more runners, the BU takes the lead runner to second, and if the runner goes for third, she becomes the PU's responsibility as the BU settles into a position to cover the other bases, and if needed, come to home and cover for the PU who is up the line at third.
Obstruction is the responsibility of all umpires on the field.
BU's, let the ball take you into the play. Important here is to watch the ball and let it tell you where the play is going. Do not over commit, but move easily into the proper position.

Except that most of us have the BU take the first play in the infield, even at 3rd.
I agree that "watch the ball and let it tell you where the play is going." is the point.

booker227

that's a bad mechanic. You expose your backside to the other bases and any potential situations, and you can force your PU away from home without any coverage. From my experience. I don't care how young you are, or how athletic you are, or how good you (universal you, not you personally)believe yourself to be, you cannot cover three bases. I've had the pleasure of officiating this game for many years, and I've found this mechanic to be the best.
Again, not an attack on you personally.

CecilOne

Originally posted by booker227
that's a bad mechanic. You expose your backside to the other bases and any potential situations, and you can force your PU away from home without any coverage. From my experience. I don't care how young you are, or how athletic you are, or how good you (universal you, not you personally)believe yourself to be, you cannot cover three bases. I've had the pleasure of officiating this game for many years, and I've found this mechanic to be the best.
Again, not an attack on you personally.

Good or bad is a matter of opinion, the important thing about base coverage is knowing what your partner will do and expect and everywhere I umpire, BU taking the first play is expected. If a BU is covering 3rd, then the PU will watch for situations everywhere and we all know that. It doesn't take any great fitness or expertise to pivot to another base before the second throw gets there, a lot less than a PU trying to get to 3rd for a throw from F6 or even F4.

whiskers_ump

I work a lot with the partner I had in this game. We discuss situtations
such as happen here. I knew that when I went forward toward 1B to make
the call, he would be headed towards 3rd. I was in great position to go
home if necessary. I knew he would see anything else that might happen on
the play, just did not know he had a fake tag, and that we had a LL umpire
for a coach that was certain BU should make all calls in the infield.

Main thing here was communications. Both umpires were aware of their
respective duties on this play.