In league play, the individual umpire has full reign over whether to suspend play or not.

In tournaments, the UIC typically has control.

So, you are on the field and have clearly seen multiple flashes of lightning, but the UIC has not yet suspended play.

What do you treasure more, your life or your not getting black-balled?

Multiple?

First flash, and I am calling the UIC over to tell him. If he didn't see it, and we keep playing, I'm definitely done on the 2nd flash.

Doesn't anyone remember the lightning flash that hit the football field where junior high kids were practicing? It didn't hit anyone specifically, but they had a couple of deaths and SEVERAL kids in the hospital for days.

Don't F with Lightning - it will win.

I agree. Lightning is nothing to play with. I am clearing my field, regardless of what is going on elsewhere.

First flash - field gets cleared. If uic hasn't seen it, too bad they can black ball this.

I've been near a lightning strike - it hit several hundred feet away from a field I was playing on - we all got knocked down. MC's right - don't mess with that stuff.

When I UIC I tell the umpires to call it if they see it...then get me so I can stop everyone else.

I agree completely. Call the game and take the chance of getting "disciplined" before taking the chance of having you or someone else hurt due to lightning.

7 or 8 years ago, I was in a tournament and we could see the storm blowing in. I started seeing the lightning up in the clouds and told the TD who was watching the game. He told me to keep on playing, the lightning meter said it was over 20 miles away. I went back to him a couple of minutes later and told him I was clearing the field, because there was no way that lightning was 20 miles off. The coaches agreed and the people started going to the cars. A few minutes, a lightning strike hit a tree in the parking area where the teams' cars were. It destroyed the tree and it fell on a few cars under it. Now, I don't mess with the stuff at all. They can choose not to use me anymore, but at least the fans, players and myself will be alive to know I can't call with that group of umpires anymore.

Exactly as it should be.

One thing to remember with lightening is that it can travel over 40 miles laterally.

Here in the lightening capital of the western hemisphere we take it seriously but with slightly different approaches.

You have to know the weather for your area and how it generally acts.

Everybody wantts a good ball game but NO game is worth someone getting killed or seriously hurt.

Yup, I've got the same approach.

We were at a tournament in the late 80’s where a girl was struck by lighting on the next field. We had just gotten back on the field after a rain delay and there were no sign of lighting except for one streak way in the distances. Seconds later it hit right on top of us. Her heart had stopped, her coach that was a CPR instructor kept her vitals going until help arrived. The girl survived with little ill effects. A small burn on the side of her face and on her foot. Tony knows how it is in Ga. July-August. We get a lot of pop-up thunder storms. I see lighting; we get off the field no matter who doesn’t like it.

Check the handout page on Softball Umpires Web Site for an article taken from the National Weather Service on lightning safety, with some guidelines for ball parks.

Let's see, piss off the UIC and let a kid live, or please the UIC and let a kid die. Wonder if the UIC will back me up later? Guess it's easy to understand why the replies are 100 percent in one direction.

Yep, I am just curious why at the ASA State tournament this year where there were 5 games going on simulaneously, that nobody left the field until the UIC called it.

That was 10 out of 10 the other way. Didn't have the opportunity to ask any of the 10.

Fortunatley I was on the sidelines at the time and was not one of the 10 on the field.

I've been at tournaments where I was specifically instructed on the procedure for weather delays, etc., (including lightning) that it was the UIC or TD who would make the call for all fields in the complex. I would guess you had umpires either who were inclined to play through it or who were following orders.

Fortunatly (for me), I've never had a lightning threat appear in a tournament where I was instructed to defer to the UIC.

So, has anyone actually done this in real life? or just saying "the way it should be"?

I have never had anyone tell me to stay on a field until the tournament folks say clear the field. I have always cleared the field when I've seen lightning.

Same here.

Twice in the summer this year I had this happen. Both times umpires pulled the teams and I pulled the rest of the diamonds. I have no problem with that. TD's usually don't like it becuase of rescheduling, but, such is life.

One tournament this year, TD said she wouldn't reschedule, reps were not doing it quickly, so, well, I did it. Not that difficult...just add 3 hours to every game time.

Better Safe Than Sorry and Hope This Helps
 

I've read what everyone has posted about approaching storms accompanied by lightning. The coaches are right, and the heck with the UMP's and other officials. According to NIOSHA and the National Weather Service, as well as the National Lightening Safety Institute, lightning kills about 80 people in the U.S. each year. It is suggested that before playing that you listen to the weather report. Lightening has been known to hit people out of a clear sky, from an approaching storm from up to 10-20 miles away. They suggest always using the 30/30 Rule as well, to know when to seek a safter location. The rule states that when you see lightning, count the time until you hear the thunder. If this time is 30 seconds or less, go immediately to a safter place. If you can't see the lightning, just hearing the thunder means lightning is likely within striking range. They also tell us that After the storm has apparently dissipated or moved on, to wait at least 30 minutes or more after 'hearing the last thunder' before leaving the safer location.
Keep away from trees, poles, metal structures of any kind. Lightening has traveled along the paths of underground pipe in empty fields, so it is best not to take any chances. Also, know the type of ground you are standing on. Depending on the sediment beneath your feet, certain metals in the earth itself will cause one to be a 'electrical conductor.' Typically seek shelter in a well structured building, public library, home, and stay out of the shopping malls where there are not load bearing posts to hold the roof up if the situation should become suddenly worse. If you have no options but your vehicles, then make sure it has a SOLID METAL ROOF AND METAL SIDES. HOWEVER, even though the tires are made of rubber, that lightening has traveled hundreds of miles (In some cases across the U.S.) through the atmosphere collecting latent heat energy from the atmosphere and the earth's surface heat, which is itensifying this system. So keep arms and hands away from the doors, sitting with hands on your laps. Do NOT attempt to use your cell phones at this time. It may cause the static charge to arc within the vehicle. (This is also wise advice when talking on your cell at the service station to get gas. That same rule applies). There are many times while a storm is developing, or if lightning is near, a person of sensativity can feel and (or) see, the hair on his/her arms stand up when they are actually not cold. That is a static charges moving throught the air.

Many lightening bolts have been recorded as registering up to 50,000 degrees F., and the reason for the thunder is that the electrical charge has penetrated the cloud cover, which disrupts the heat and cold exchanges along with the moisture or humidity that has accumulated. For the best and most recent information about lightning, thunderstorms and other severe weather, go to the website of the National Weather Service, or here is a list of other sites which will be informative and very helpful in arguing your case about 'who' gets authority to call a game. To Forewarn is to Forearm, as they say. Tell these people instead of creating an issue, lets avoid one. Here is a list of the sites. www.LightningSafety.noaa.gov, www.redcross.org/disaster/masters/, https://www.patrick.af.mil/45ws/45og...ety/index.html. For this last one, be certain in the HTTPs, to understore that s. or you may get 'page cannot be displayed.', www.LighteningStorm.com and www.Lightning-Strike.org.
On many of these websites you will also be able to study cloud formations and each type of cloud cover and what each of them means. It's very helpful as well as educational. It just so happens that as a mature college student, this is our current study - and that is weather predictions.

There are many more places where you can watch videos of storm trackers, and watch lighting hitting airplanes 'in flight' on approach and much, much more.

The best idea is when going onto the playing field that day is to keep a radio with one of the officials or with one of the parents who has been chosen to listen for special reports and warnings at all times. It doesn't hurt to take a moment to listen to the reports...in fact, that should be within the rules as to avoid hazards. Remember, no one wants to be the tallest object during a thunderstorm. People just do not make good lightning rods. This same information holds true for all outdoor activities. Good luck and I hope this was informational for all of you lovely sports people. Leah-the angel of advance warning. :>)

Here in Nebraska THIS week, a girl was struck by lightning (and killed) while her and a few others were playing soccer. One other one that was on the field is in critical condition and I'm not sure of the status of the others. Dave

Makes you want to lock yourself in you house, assuming it is a well-structered building and never come out.

Yes, lightning is a scary and dangerous thing. And I've seen many documentaries about lightning.

What I don't get is how things have changed. From my youth, I've heard thunder and have never seen a bit of lightning on a regular basis. A "thunderstorm" and an "electrical storm" were not synonymous. However, we are now being told, if you hear thunder, there must be lightning. Hmmm.

Same as if you hear a gunshot, there must be a gun. If you hear thunder, there IS lightning (somewhere) that made the sound.

The reason (I think) for the extreme caution is the unpredictability of where lightning will strike in the area around an approaching thunderstorm. We used to use the countdown method to judge the distance of lightning (see the lightning, count one-thoudand-one, one-thousand-two, etc, until you hear the thunder. The lightning is count/5 miles away. If you counted to 15, it is 3 miles away, etc.) But, since lightning CAN strike on the extreme edges of the storm, or even well ahead of it, this method is not really useful for figuring a safety margin. And, the thunder will travel farther than you will be able to see the lightning, since the lightning can be hidden by trees, buildings, or clouds.

Add this unpredictability to the current fearful culture (one where we think it is necessary to disinfect our entire environment), toss in a few lawyers, add a few news stories (like in the post above), and, well, here we are.

Even so, I won't mess with lightning on a softball field.

There is a handout based on the NWS recommendations at the handout page of the Softball Umpires web site.

Not exactly sure what your point is Mike, but I am going to ask you point blank:

You are the UIC at a major tournament. You see the flash, you hear the sound, but you don't pull the trigger. But a junior umpire pulls the players from the field. The other 4 fields are still playing.

What's the call?
What's the future of the junior umpire based on this single action?

Even without the "fearful culture" change, science accumulates knowledge and understanding as time passes and more attentionis always given to problems as the number of occurrences accumulate. Plus the hugely increased ability and amount of communication compared to when some of us were children.

However, we are now being told, if you hear thunder, there must be lightning

No - thunder is created by the gods bowling in the clouds. :rolleyes:

Lightening heats up the air and causes it to rapidly expand and collaspe. That shock wave is what you hear as thunder. Due to pressure, temperature, and other atmospheric conditions, you may not hear thunder from a bolt that is close, or you may hear it from miles away.

Lightening typically is on the front edge of a storm and may procede it; storms can move from 20 to 50 mph. In an extreme case you may hear thunder, not see lightening, and have a bolt on top of you within minutes.

See it - hear it - get out!

WMB

Don't know why you would ask that question. I didn't suggest any of the statements were wrong, just how the "interpretation" of the atmospherical events seem to have changed of the years.

However, to answer your question will be easy. Been there, done that.

It will not happen if I see the lightning. I would expect any umpire in the complex who sees lightning to pull the teams and inform the umpires on other fields which I will expect to mirror his/her actions. If I'm told, I will be passying the work to the other fields to shut it down.

Also, don't know why you would think there would be a problem for an umpire simply doing their job.

I didn't mean to imply I thought our current approach of extreme caution with lightning was anything less than correct. I was just commenting on differences between "then" and "now."

People have always had a problem making the proper decisions in low probablility / high penalty situations. That's why the first reaction of many people when awakened by a hotel fire alarm is to wait and see if it is a false alarm, rather than evacuate immediately. Chances are, they are right. But, if they are wrong, they may be dead wrong. Lots of other examples... seat belts, motorcycle helmets, etc.

I look at lightning the same way. Low probability of a strike that will injure anyone on or around the field, but if it does happen, the consequences can be very tragic. Not worth rolling the dice, IMO.

What I make fun of, however, is low probabiliy, low penalty situations that people in our modern culture get all worried about. Disinfecting the kitchen trash can, for example. Sure, little junior could grab an old piece of something and put it in his mouth, but unless you are running a meth lab, the consequences are going to be minor. And, the long term consequences of killing every microbe in sight (so to speak) is, peversely, the opposite - it reduces our collective resistance to such bugs, and increases the penalty for junior's grandchild.

It wasn't you I was trying to convince about lightning, just making the point that reality as well as attuitude progress as time goes by.

Fair enough Mike.
I wasn't sure if I was reading your previous post correctly or not. One way that I read it was that you were inclined to take lightning lightly. My apologies for the mis-read.

If the UIC emphatically stated at the beginning of the tournament, that he and only he could stop a game, and then an umpire took it upon himself to stop a game, I was wondering what the consensus of various UIC's (including yourself) of how you would take it. The UIC might think that the umpire was doing his job if he followed the instructions of the UIC and not taking matters into his own hands.