Batting out of Order

[Rick Vietti]

Here is the situation: High School Visiting team is up by 12 runs and coach subs two girls in batting order in 8 & 9th spot. I record the changes and announce the subs by the numbers he gave me. They come up to bat top of 5 (game to be over if they hold at bottom of 5)and they bat out of order. The improper batter gets a base hit.

Home team coach appeals and I call out the girl who should have batted and proceed to remove the girl from first and have her bat again. The visiting team coach asks graciously the home coach if he would allow the girl who did not bat at all the chance to bat. In effect we would be batting out of order again. He agreed and so did I so that the girl would get an at bat for the game.

The visiting coach tells his girls that he messed up and we ended the game without any further problems.

I think I will change my mechanic for recording and reporting subs and be more pro-active and also ask for the names of the subs and who they are replacing. That way if the coach just tells me the proper name but screws up the number we can catch it before we even start.

My question is does anyone else use this type of mechanic and is it effective.

[SamNVa]

If you are playing by FED rules, all substitutes are supposed to be reported by name and number of the entering player and the name of the player being replaced. I also ask for the number of the player being replaced as well.

[Steve M]

Rick,
If the name is correct but the number is wrong, we can fix that at any time. Sam's right, get name and number - it'll go a lot cleaner if/when there are any questions. When a coach tells me that 5/Smith is in for 7/Jones, I'll repeat that back just to make sure that I understood what the coach meant to say. And, in your example, I won't accept 2 subs at the sam time offensively. I'll tell the coach to let me know about subs when they happen 'cuz I don't want to antcipate. Building on yourexample, if the second sub had sprained her ankle while in the on-dck circle and could not go into the game - you've aready got her in the game and need a replacement for her. But if you wait to announce & record subs until they actually happen, this won't be a problem.

[Rick Vietti]

Steve - Thanks for the feedback and I agree. Actually in my scenario they entered the game in the bottom of the 4th on defense and that is why I took both subs at once. On offense I never let the coach make all the subs at once, I also only let them in when it happens.

[IRISHMAFIA]

I have no problem allowing a coach to make multiple changes at any time as long as they do not involve the same spot in the batting order. I will not take them as a group as I will call the coach over and repeat every change he gave me to make sure what I heard is really what he wants. I also make sure they know that all changes take effect immediately.

NFHS does not permit "projected" changes. I read that to involve, "Blue, if the order gets to #5, substitute #3 for her" type of change.

If s/he wants to make wholesale changes and to the best of my knowledge they are legal, I just as well get them out of the way at the top of the inning.

If a player gets injured in the dugout or on deck, I see that as a coaching concern, not the umpires.

Short story. I once had a coach who made a change. The names have not been changed to protect the idiot....er, innocence.

COACH: Blue, Jimmy is hitting for Earl. Earl will re-enter.
ME: Coach, give me the re-entry when it happens.
COACH: I'm giving it to you now.
ME: Coach, give me all re-entries when they happen.
COACH: Why? I'm telling you now, I shouldn't have to do it again.
ME: Coach, are you saying that you are announcing Earl's re-entry?
COACH: Damn right, I am!
ME: Fine, coach, you're the boss. Sam (opposing coach), re-enter Earl.

Jimmy gets a hit and moves a runner to 3B. Before next pitch,

SAM: Blue, I'd like to point out that the player that just got the hit was illegal at the time.
ME: Right you are, coach (SAM). Coach, Jimmy was an illegal re-entry. He is out and done for the game. Move the runner back to 1st base.
COACH: But I gave you the change.
ME: That's correct, coach. Then YOU insisted on reporting the re-entry though I asked you not to until it was to occur. YOU insisted on doing it and told me point-blank to re-enter Earl. So I did what YOU insisted I do. By the way, don't forget to tell Earl he missed his turn at bat.

True story. Sometimes no matter how much you try to help them get it right, it just doesn't sink in. To be honest, I knew what was going to happen before it did because the opposing coach, Sam, is an umpire and knew what I was trying to do for his opponent.

Dirty trick? Yeah, I guess you could say that, but occassionally people just get what they ask for.

[Steve M]

Mike,
Bet your innocent idiot didn't make that mistake again for at least a week. And then he told everyone how he got shafted by some blue jerk. You oughta make sure Joel uses your innocent idiot story for his collection.

I guess I read "projected" as meaning if it ain't happening for this next pitch, that's projected and I want to avoid it.

I agree that the injuries are coacing problems & not mine - but sooner or later I'll have to deal with them. I see it as making slower paperwork but fewer headaches.