Out or Not Out?

[Dakota]

ASA fastpitch

Situation: R1 on 2B; R2 on 1B. BR hits a grounder. F5 is playing in. Ball richocets off F5 toward F6. Ball hits R1, who is running to 3B. If the ball had not hit R1, it was heading directly toward F6. R1 had no chance to avoid the ball, since it changed direction so quickly.

ASA 8-8-K says runner is out.
POE 28-A-3-b says runner is out.
ASA 8-9-F says runner is not out.

Question: how do you determine whether 8-8-K/POE 28 or 8-9-F takes precendence?

[Steve M]

Dakota,
Definitely a gotta see it, but add in there Case Book plays 8.8-42 and 8.9-6. I will decide at the time if F6 is likely to make a play - remember, in ASA this means that an out will likely be made. If F6 is ready & waiting to make the play, I'll take the out. If F6 is still moving or any number of other variables are present (really fast left-handed BR for example), then I've got nothing. How do you decide? You'll know it when you see it. That may sound like a lousy answer, but ....

[IRISHMAFIA]

Speaking ASA and unintentional contact.

8.8.K does not rule the runner out since the catch word in this rule is "untouched".

POE 28.3.b does seem to allow the umpire to call interference ONLY if it is determined that another fielder can make an OUT, not just a play.

Now, in Rule 8 of the 2001 ASA Umpire Clinic Guide the following is stated under Interference and Runner (the emphasis on the words in caps is that of ASA, not mine):

"Any runner hit by a batted FAIR ball BEFORE the ball passes an infielder are OUT. If the ball hits a runner after it is touched by or touches a fielder, the runner is NOT out."

Personally, if I am going to give the benefit of the doubt to anyone, it's going to be the runner. It is going to have to be painfully obvious the the interference was intentional or the second defender was going to get an out by a wide margin.

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Agreed...........definite HTBT........I am going to have to be 100% positive that an out was canceled because the ball hit the runner...........

Most likely going to give the benefit to the runner unless I thought it was intentional.......

Joel

[SamNVa]

I agree with Steve, Mike and Joel. A HTBT play, but the benefit of the doubt goes to the runner on a deflected ball.

[whiskers_ump]

Not that it matters at this point, cause all
the guns have already done the research and
applied the rules, but I also agree, with the
benefit going to the runner.