R1 ON BASE, B1 HITS FLY BALL, R1 GOES HALF WAY, F1 THROWS BALL BACK TO TAG UP R1 AND THROWS IT OVER THE FENCE. WHEN THROW IS MADE R1 IS RUNNING BACK TO 1ST BASE.

SINCE R1 WAS NOT ON 1ST BASE WHEN THROW WAS MADE, AM I CORRECT TO SAY THAT HE WOULD ONLY GET SECOND, BUT IF HE WAS STANDING ON 1ST WHEN THROW WAS MADE OR HE HAD TAGGED UP, HE WOULD GET THIRD.

You didn't state what rules you were using. You would only be correct if you are playing USSSA; they use the one plus one, the one you are going to (first, in this case) plus one (second).

In every other rule set of which I am aware (ASA, NFHS, NCAA, ISF), the award is two bases from the last base touched from the time the throw leaves the thrower's hand. No matter what direction they are headed. In your play, the runner was past first base; two bases is third.

i did state what rules it is in my subject. nsa/mens

no he was not past first

he got a single.

next batter hit a fly ball, in which he went half way, as he was going back to tag up the ball went out of play.

So, you don't think halfway between first and second is past first? He started on first and went halfway to second. Isn't 1-1/2 greater than 1? Or did he go halfway back to home? That would be not past first.

Its my understanding that NSA uses predominately ASA rules, although I am not sure of that. If that is the case then the player would get 3rd base as 1st base had already been obtained.

In USSSA as stated previously R1 would only get 2B as the act of retouching is considered the base the player is going to.

thanks, and yes he was in between, but my issues was having to go back and tag up.

thanks

Unlike most other organizations NSA has their rulebook online. See http://www.playnsa.com.

Rule 8-5-f states a runner receives two bases from the last base occupied. In your scenario (ball thrown into dead ball territory and R1 between 1st and 2nd at time of throw) R1 would be awarded 3rd base.

Remember that if the ball was a caught fly ball, R1 would still be required to go back and touch first, then touch second before legally occupying third.

You've been an NSA umpire for TEN YEARS and this never came up before?

Award is two bases (forward). It doesn't matter which direction the runner is heading when the ball goes out of play.

Since this was the first throw by an infielder, the award is based on the runners position AT TIME OF PITCH, which was first base (see NSA rule 8-5-E).

As you describe it, the runner would be awarded third.

And, yes, the runner is still obligated to re-touch first before completing his base award. (see NSA rule 8-1-K).

But if he doesn't re-touch before heading to third, he can only be called out on a proper appeal by the defense.

So, if he does go straight to third and no member of the defensive team says a word before the next pitch is thrown, play on.

[Edited by BretMan on Sep 30th, 2005 at 09:35 AM]

No it has never come up, and it could have but i could have forgotten.

And I was playing this time, and we were on teh field. And I yelled he only gets 2nd, but after the game I was not sure so I came home to be correct, because I also do some USSSA softball, and he would only get second, so i wanted to make sure of what I yelled.