Another ASA play

[IRISHMAFIA]

Speaking ASA Fastpitch ONLY:

R2 and R1 on second and third base respectively, two outs.

B3 strikes out, but the ball gets by F2. R1 scores, but R2 is tagged out at the plate. B3 failed to run to 1B. After tagging R2 out, the catcher throws to 1B for the fourth out.

Does R1's run count?

[Gulf Coast Blue]

No......the run does not count. The BR is retired before legally attaining 1st base for an advantageous 4th out.

Joel

[IRISHMAFIA]

ASA Ruling:

No run can score when the third out (last out) is made by the batter-runner before he reaches 1B, and, in this case, the fourth out replaces the third out. This would also be true if the last out was a force out at any base due to the batter becoming a batter-runner (Rule 5-5B)

[tcannizzo]

Why does the umpire have to worry about a scorekeeping question?

[whiskers_ump]

Where or where did this come from. Joel has not been around in over a year.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by whiskers_ump
Where or where did this come from. Joel has not been around in over a year.

Check out the dates

[whiskers_ump]

That was my point. Why would someone bring it up?

[Dakota]

tcannizzo,

Since search doesn't work, boy, have you been spending some quality time paging through this board!

[tcannizzo]

Yes, I do have some time on my hands at the moment. Just some light reading and catching up with the board... ]

However, my question had nothing to do with Joel or any poster in particular. It is interesting to me that there are passages in the core rules, that are specific to whether runs score or not, and it makes me wonder if the umpires responsibilities include some aspects of scorkeeping. Recently there were posts where I distinctly remember reading a different point.

BTW, would it be terribly difficult to enable the search function?

[Edited by tcannizzo on Jul 7th, 2005 at 08:34 AM]

[whiskers_ump]

Talk to Mick......

[Dakota]

Originally posted by tcannizzo
It is interesting to me that there are passages in the core rules, that are specific to whether runs score or not, and it makes me wonder if the umpires responsibilities include some aspects of scorkeeping. Recently there were posts where I distinctly remember reading a different point.

There is a difference between ruling whether or not a run scores and keeping the scorebook. Since some runs score or don't score based on timing or based on the situation in this thread (4th out), and some other more routine situations, it requires an umpire's ruling before the scorekeeper can do his job. Most of the time, with a routine force out for the 3rd out, it is assumed the scorekeeper knows the rule. However, I've had parent-scorekeepers or even sometimes coach-scorekeepers ask even about that.

[tcannizzo]

I'm OK with that. But is it the umpire's responsibility to initiate a scorebook/scoreboard correction on a run that either did or did not score according to rule?

Example, the run did not count, but the official scorebook/scoreboard posted the run. Would you treat this more like an appeal rather than a call?

[CecilOne]

Under two conditions:
- timing play where an umpire has to rule on whether a runner crossed home before the out,
- situations of possible rule confusion like this topic;
I would advise the scorer(s) about the run to prevent incorrect scores and problems later in the game.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by tcannizzo
I'm OK with that. But is it the umpire's responsibility to initiate a scorebook/scoreboard correction on a run that either did or did not score according to rule?

Example, the run did not count, but the official scorebook/scoreboard posted the run. Would you treat this more like an appeal rather than a call?

Not my issue as the umpire. I can only rule on whether it scored or not. This issue had absolutely NOTHING to do with the scoring of the play, but whether a run scores or not.