Need help on this one....

You have a team #1 that has 7 wins 2 loses 2 ties: 7-2-2
And another team #2that has 7 wins 3 loses: 7-3

Who is in 1st place by record only at this moment???

Then team 2 plays their final game and wins...

Team #1 7-2-2
Team #2 8-3

Who is in 1st place in both cases and WHY???
Thanks

My guess: In the first case, the 7-2-2 team is in first as they have fewer losses. In the second case, the 8-3 team is in first place as they have more wins.

Who is in 1st ???
 

In the first example:
Team #1 7-2-2, 7/11 = .636 win percentage
Team #2 7-3, 7/10 = .700 win percentage

Team #2 is in first place.

In the second example
Team #1 7-2-2, 7/11 = .636 win percentage
Team #2 8-3, 8/11 = .727 win percentage

Team #2 is in first place again.

GaryB

Not to be a smartass...well, okay a little bit of a smartass, but why would an umpire care?

;)

Do not know if an umpire would care, just answering the question at hand.

GaryB

About like an umpire not to care!!!!
Yes, you are correct...You are a smartass....

But you're not. You're guessing. A tie is half a win (and half a loss. By your logic, a tie and a loss affect you exactly the same, and a team that was 7-6-0 and a team that was 7-0-6 would have the same pct. That's wrong.

7-2-2 is .727, 7-3 is .700, and 8-3 is .727. In the 1st scenario, team 1 is temporarily in first place. If team 2 wins their final game, the teams are tied. (As to what the tiebreaker is/should be --- that will differ by league, but the best way would be to settle it on the field).

Um, slowball... that was uncalled for. You came to an umpiring board and asked a general sports-related, but not umpire-related question. After seeing your response to IM, I regret answering your question... but I will leave it there for you anyway.

I agree that an umpire would not care, but this all depends on how the leagues decides to handle ties.

1) Act like they never happened
Team 1 7-2-2 = .778
Team 2 7-3 = .700

Team 1 7-2-2 = .778
Team 2 8-3 = .727

2) Count them as 1/2 W and 1/2 Loss
Team 1 7-2-2 = .727
Team 2 7-3 = .700

Team 1 7-2-2 = .727
Team 2 8-3 = .727

3) Count them as games, but neither win nor loss
Team 1 7-2-2 = .636
Team 2 7-3 = .700

Team 1 7-2-2 = .636
Team 2 8-3 = .727

The most common method is #2 or a point system with 3 points for a win and 1 point for a tie. Usually the team with the most wins wins the tie breaker.

"A tie is half a win (and half a loss."

ONLY if the league has set that criteria to determine standings.

Bob

Actually, you are assuming that your rules are the correct rules, but rules do vary.

You are correct I am conculding a tie is a loss, because it is not a win.

That would depend on how your organization defines a tie.

GaryB

I'll admit that it's possible some local league somewhere has bizarro rules in place to handle ties.

However, from 20 years of working in numerous sports, I've never run across any league in any sport that would rank a 7-6-0 team equally with a 7-0-6 team.

Every league I've ever been involved with has either calculated winning percentage by considering a tie equal to 1/2 win (that covers about 95%), or an NHL-style points system (2pts for a win, 1 for a tie --- which is actually identical in result to the first method --- or 3 pts for a win, 1 for a tie).

If you consider professional leagues, NCAA conferences, NAIA districts, etc - ALL of them, with NHL/IHL hockey being an exception, consider a tie equal to half a win. (IE - these are not MY rules, as you state. These are very standard, and very consistently used rules)

If that's not good enough to answer the original poster's question, then I suppose nothing will be.

I guess I'm missing something:

In the Netherlands (ESF/ISF-rules) we will have:

Team 1: 7-2-2; thats 11 played games and 16pts
Team 2: 7-0-3; thats 10 played games and 14pts

Therefor team 2 HAS to play another game!

In the Netherlands team 1 has the 1st place. But Team 2 has to play another game. If they win, both be on 16 points. Team 2 will be on 1st place. By one more win.
If they lose or tie: 2nd place for team 2, they can't get 16 points...

(we give 2 points for a win, 1 for a tie.)

It seems as though your question of who is in 1st place was generally answered...........
although, who cares who is a smarta**?
As this is an umpire board / the question remains: Why would an umpire care about the win/loss record of any team?

I get assigned games .
I dont know at a tournament who is top or bottom or how many wins or losses .
I do see many umpires with their books calculating all this an knows which teams are headed for a final .
I dont care , I go out and umpire every game as to the best of my ability and often have to be told that it is a mercy game or 7 innings are up or it is a tie breaker .
How can you have a tied game , we never do , we have to get a result .

Some of us officiate games (i.e. umpire/referee etc) and also officiate leagues. I agree, debeau, about my attitude toward the teams when I'm umpiring. I don't go in with any preconceived notions. I've seen 0-6 beat 6-0 often enough to know that record doesn't always mean much.

He's probably a player or something that thought the teams record was in some way shape or form an ASA issue, which it is obviously not.

I gave this link to some players so they could have some interpretations and or rules questioned answered. I hope this guy isn't one of them.

Sorry if I was out of line sharing the link.

Thanks to all that replied...
You put a better light on the subject..Thanks again

About me being out of line...I asked a very good question,
that could or could not be a rules question, and I felt
umpires would know the answer..and I was right they do...

mcrowder:
Look back at the start of the post, I did not start the bad fuss..Rowe did, I just asked a good question..that is all...

Thanks for leaving it on, mcrowder

Good post and good answer..Thanks Baker

Keep it up and you wont be here long.
If you havent noticed, nobody is replying to you for a reason. Clue.