3B coach asks for the number of outs (long inning)..3B umpire double checks with the plate umpire, and they have two different numbers. Plate umpires walks over to the book and gets the correct number of out and informs coach, who at first questions it, but then agrees. Both umpires return to their positions. The catcher is standing up behind the plate,and the pitcher is on the rubber (FP). 2B umpire then calls "DEAD BALL runner on 2nd is out for leaving the base to soon" whatcha got? (besides a mess)

Was the batter in the box and had the plate umpire declared the ball live?

nope. no declaration of time either.

"Plate umpire walks over to book".

Most PU's are going to call this an implied time out. It's bad form, and MOST good PU's will call time before walking over there. But if they screw up, and don't call time, it's very similar to the implied time out you get when this same umpire forgets to call time to clean the plate.

Therefore, I don't have an out at 2nd - the ball's not yet alive until I tell pitcher it is live.

Time is automatic when the umpire(s) are delaing with administrative matters, no matter how many there are.
That does not necessarily mean the runner could not be out if the umpire does call "PLAY" and the runner is still off.

Time had to have been out even if not declared so the umpire could tend to their duties. If the batter is not in the box and the umpire had not declared the ball live, I think I would have some conversation with my second base umpire and explain that the ball was still dead. Just because the umpire didn't declare the ball live though doesn't keep the runner from being called out. Remember this is also the ump that didn't call time, maybe they weren't going to put it back in play either.

[Edited by Ed Maeder on May 19th, 2005 at 04:39 PM]

so far, so good...anyone disagree?

Darrell,
Only thing I would add is that I would take 'em half way to Wickenburg, make 'em get out of the car and make 'em run all the way back home.

Mr. Jones... the problem was that I was one of the umpires....

Wickenburg
 

I drove through there when we would take the big trip to the city. i come from the Turquoise capital of the world. At least in the late 70's it was.

AZ, knowing you from here, I'm going to assume you weren't BU. So what did you do, and what did yoy say to BU?

Gee, Darrell, I was just about to ask who screwed this up...:)

I was 3B..after the runner was called out, I got us together and gave the plate umpire my opinion and let her decide. shes a good umpire, but made the wrong decision....the 2B umpire can be a little difficult to deal with at times... after the game we got together and I discussed implied and actual time outs (mostly for the 2B umpire),and how to keep that situation from hppening again...and why the girl should not have even been called out to start with.

Darrell,

Whats to discuss, it's in the rule book.

Of course its in the rule book..but sometimes talking stuff through is beter than saying "look it up"