Positioning Error ?

[Chess Ref]

I am BU. Runner on 1B. Base hit to RF. I move in and buttonhook. I watch BR touch 1B, meanwhile there is a mosh pit breaking out at 2B. Apparently everyone, but me and my partner saw the runner overrun 2B and get tagged out. My question is while I am watching the BR who should be watching the runner advancing to 2B ?
It seems like that call should be mine but then it leaves open the possibility of something going on at 1B. I looked in the Ump Manual but couldn't find anything specific. feedback please....

[rhsc]

Originally posted by Chess Ref
I am BU. Runner on 1B. Base hit to RF. I move in and buttonhook. I watch BR touch 1B, meanwhile there is a mosh pit breaking out at 2B. Apparently everyone, but me and my partner saw the runner overrun 2B and get tagged out. My question is while I am watching the BR who should be watching the runner advancing to 2B ?
It seems like that call should be mine but then it leaves open the possibility of something going on at 1B. I looked in the Ump Manual but couldn't find anything specific. feedback please....

In this sitch, the BU has second and the PU has first. If there are other BRs on second or third, BU has first and second, PU has third and home. See other threads for more details.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by rhsc

In this sitch, the BU has second and the PU has first. If there are other BRs on second or third, BU has first and second, PU has third and home. See other threads for more details.

If communicated and covered in that manner, it is okay, but it is not the prescribed mechanic. The BU must use some common sense here and prioritize the plays.

As I said in another thread, as an umpire gains experience, s/he will get a sense of timing and know when to glance in whatever direction is necessary. Also, the R touching 2B is also the BU's responsibility and one base closer to the plate. That means this should be the first checked and, if the ball is still in the outfield, the BU should glance toward 1B to see if the BR has touched yet.

Yes, the PU can provide a little help at 1B, but if R1 got to 2B that quick, s/he should have been drifting toward 3B for a possible call.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by Chess Ref
I am BU. Runner on 1B. Base hit to RF. I move in and buttonhook. I watch BR touch 1B, meanwhile there is a mosh pit breaking out at 2B. Apparently everyone, but me and my partner saw the runner overrun 2B and get tagged out.

Why were you not watching the ball? Your priority on this play is where the play is being made, not on a possible missed base. Keep the ball in view; let it take you to the play.

[wadeintothem]

Both umps were not watching the ball? thats amazing. Without the ball.. no one can get tagged out.

To start You should have been in B very close to 2nd (to the left of F4 towards 2B), button hook in and right on that play.

The PU would take a play subsequent to a play at 1B - say a miss on the runner at 2b (your call), they throw to 1B (your call) then they make a play on R1 at 3B - that would be pu's call.. 1B is not PU's call unless you go out.

IE you should have been watching the ball and in position to watching the 2B play and the 1B play.

Thats you correctly doing your job.. now that said, the PU should have moved out from the plate and been watching the whole thing.

THe fact we had two umpires both staring off into space and not watching the ball is very strange IMO.

I suggest you get the NFHS Fed book "Officiating Softball" it is really good on the mechanic aspect. Leave it in the Restroom and read it throughout the whole season.

[Steve M]

I'm with Tom & the others - watch the ball, glance at the runners - at least until you know where the play will be made.

From B, as you move in - with no obvious play, you are close to the circle so you can make minimal movement to get a great angle on any play at the same time, you move a bit closer once you have that angle.

[Chess Ref]

I thought I was doing the correct mechanic ( watching the BR all the way to 3B if necessary). i kinda threw common sense out the window. I do read the books, alot, I just haven't absorbed it all yet. Won't happen again-hopefully.

Thanks for the feedback.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Sorry, I have to disagree with all. The BU's responsibility is to get inside, watch the runners THEN pick-up the ball.

Experience will teach an umpire the priorities and how to make the most out of every play.

HOWEVER, the last thing you want to tell a relatively inexperienced umpire is to watch the ball. I tell every class I have that the hardest part of becoming an umpire on the bases is not following the ball. If you tell them to watch the ball, they will become a spectator and the PU will be the Lone Ranger out there 'cause Tonto is acting like s/he should have a dog and beer in her/his hands.

Though there are many, MANY different variations on how to cover certain plays with a particular number of umpires, you still need to have everyone start at the same place and work their way up from there.

[wadeintothem]

You have BR all the way to 3b but you also have R1 unless it is a play at 3b subsequent to a play on BR. Thats PU's.. other than that you got both.

Think of a standard double 6-4-3 double play. You should be in position for that call. Both of calls.

Put R1 on 2B and R2 at 1B and do the 6-4-3.. then a third play on R1 at 3B. The call at 3B would be PU's. The other two are yours.

[wadeintothem]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
Sorry, I have to disagree with all. The BU's responsibility is to get inside, watch the runners THEN pick-up the ball.

Experience will teach an umpire the priorities and how to make the most out of every play.

HOWEVER, the last thing you want to tell a relatively inexperienced umpire is to watch the ball. I tell every class I have that the hardest part of becoming an umpire on the bases is not following the ball. If you tell them to watch the ball, they will become a spectator and the PU will be the Lone Ranger out there 'cause Tonto is acting like s/he should have a dog and beer in her/his hands.

Though there are many, MANY different variations on how to cover certain plays with a particular number of umpires, you still need to have everyone start at the same place and work their way up from there.

I dont say watch the ball to mean in spectator fasion. It is more of:

move to position (a play at 2b or 1b are definately anticipated in this sit and PU has caught fly so your responsibility will be runners) and let the ball take you to the play. You should be moving into position. You cant move to position and stare at 2b or stare at 1b in a two man system.. the play will be where the ball goes.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Speaking ASA.

In OKC this winter, there was an emphasis on the BU coming inside and button-hooking toward the runner. Not sneaking a peek or watching the ball.

In the Umpire's Manual, the button-hook is covered on page 229 of the 2005 Rules Book. Along with a diagram, the text specifically states,

As you move toward the inside of the diamond, you should be concentrating on the runner(s) you are responsible for, making sure you do NOT interfere with anyone, checking for the tag of the base, obstruction or interference while glancing to pick up the ball in the outfield. As you are moving inside the diamond, you should be: Watching the runner, glancing to pick up the ball, watching the runner, glancing to pick up the ball. Once inside ht ediamond 10 to 12 feet, pivot (or "button-hook") into the play, make sure the runner otuches the bse, check for obstruction and proceed with the play.

[wadeintothem]

what thats talking about is the PU has the catch, you have the runners. The ball still needs to take you to where the play will be.

If you dont know where the ball is you will end up like the OP staring at one runner while the other runner is getting tagged out.. and thats no good.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by wadeintothem
what thats talking about is the PU has the catch, you have the runners. The ball still needs to take you to where the play will be.

If you dont know where the ball is you will end up like the OP staring at one runner while the other runner is getting tagged out.. and thats no good.

No, it is not. It is the under Field Umpire mechanics, not Fly Ball coverage.

The mechanics are those prescribed by ASA for championship play. What you want to do elsewhere is up to you, but this thread is based upon a request by a relatively new umpire, so I'm going to give the the mechanic he is supposed to use.

BTW, work a major tournament and miss a runner not touching a base that everyone in the world saw because you are watching the ball and it is very possible you will have a visit with the UIC before your next game.

Also, what else do you need to have a tag play? That's right, the runner! In the given scenario, the PU should have been on the ball to back up his partner and make that call. However, if the BU had his priorities straight on the runners, he would have been right with the play as he would have had the base, the ball and the runner (the play) in front of him.

[rhsc]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

No, it is not. It is the under Field Umpire mechanics, not Fly Ball coverage.

The mechanics are those prescribed by ASA for championship play. What you want to do elsewhere is up to you, but this thread is based upon a request by a relatively new umpire, so I'm going to give the the mechanic he is supposed to use.

BTW, work a major tournament and miss a runner not touching a base that everyone in the world saw because you are watching the ball and it is very possible you will have a visit with the UIC before your next game.

Also, what else do you need to have a tag play? That's right, the runner! In the given scenario, the PU should have been on the ball to back up his partner and make that call. However, if the BU had his priorities straight on the runners, he would have been right with the play as he would have had the base, the ball and the runner (the play) in front of him.

Im with on this one all the way. BU is resposible for seeing the runners tagging the bases; PU has the ball. If the BU can assist with the ball, or needs to try based on runners, fine, but not routinely.