Mechanic on odd play

[mcrowder]

Tie game, bases loaded, time has expired, home team batting, 2 outs. 12U

Batter is walked.

ALL THREE RUNNERS sprint to near the pitchers mound to begin a line (apparently, being in the front of the line to shake hands with the other team is something this team has drilled - they were QUICK). (BR did actually make it to first, and ended up last in line for the handshake)

I'm standing at home, dumbfounded. Catcher returned the ball to the pitcher, who begins crying and stays on the mound. The rest of the infield heads off slowly.

I can't yell "Ballgame!" until someone scores, right? I can't score the run until someone A) touches home, or B) defense ("all infielders", according to the book) leave the field. I can't call her out for abandonment until she leaves the field of play.

I stand there dumbfounded. My BU stands in C, mouth agape, in stunned silence.

What do YOU do?

[Dakota]

By any chance, did one of those runners pass the preceeding runner?

Maybe just stand there in a position that might make it obvious that the game is not yet over. Maybe some coach will get the hint.

[JEL]

"(BR did actually make it to first, and ended up last in line for the handshake)"

"Catcher returned the ball to the pitcher,"




LBR, Game goes to ITB

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by mcrowder
Tie game, bases loaded, time has expired, home team batting, 2 outs. 12U

Batter is walked.

ALL THREE RUNNERS sprint to near the pitchers mound to begin a line (apparently, being in the front of the line to shake hands with the other team is something this team has drilled - they were QUICK). (BR did actually make it to first, and ended up last in line for the handshake)

I'm standing at home, dumbfounded. Catcher returned the ball to the pitcher, who begins crying and stays on the mound. The rest of the infield heads off slowly.

I can't yell "Ballgame!" until someone scores, right? I can't score the run until someone A) touches home, or B) defense ("all infielders", according to the book) leave the field. I can't call her out for abandonment until she leaves the field of play.

I stand there dumbfounded. My BU stands in C, mouth agape, in stunned silence.

What do YOU do?

It's all your fault! You allowed the batter to walk and made the pitcher cry, you meanie!!!

Pet peeve. Where in the book does it instruct an umpire to yell "ballgame"? I'm not saying that it is a problem, but I've also had people argue that, like a judge rapping a gavel, a game cannot officially end until the PU yells "ballgame".

As the umpire in this situation, I would gesture to my partner to head in my direction, going around the meeting in the middle of the field. I would stand in the vicinity of the plate until both teams have cleared the field. At that point, I'm satisfied that both teams are satisfied and will leave the field WITHOUT COMMENT TO ANYONE with my partner.

I know some people will disagree with this, but to me, it comes under the heading of "don't look for boogers".

[MA Softball Ump]

Originally posted by JEL
"(BR did actually make it to first, and ended up last in line for the handshake)"

"Catcher returned the ball to the pitcher,"




LBR, Game goes to ITB

Right Answer!

[Dakota]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
As the umpire in this situation, I would gesture to my partner to head in my direction, going around the meeting in the middle of the field. I would stand in the vicinity of the plate until both teams have cleared the field. At that point, I'm satisfied that both teams are satisfied and will leave the field WITHOUT COMMENT TO ANYONE with my partner.

I know some people will disagree with this, but to me, it comes under the heading of "don't look for boogers".

Mike,

I can see (and even agree) with this for a routine league game. Wait around long enough to give a D-coach time to notice & then just leave.

But, what about a tournament? State tournament? National tournament?

Same answer?

[mcrowder]

LBR... that's certainly a unique point of view, and one that didn't occur to me.

I honestly don't know for sure that the pitcher remained in the circle with the ball in hand as long as it took for BR to touch first, "round" the base, stop (in line), and not proceed toward a base. Something I could watch for next time this happens (if ever it does).

And I suppose LBR on the BR, if it occurred prior to R1 on 3B touching home (which this one never did) would nullify the run, just as an out on a runner overrunning a base would nullify a run on a slow moving R1. Interesting. (I think I'd feel like supreme OOO for making this call, by the way!)

OK - let's say she didn't. Either BR stayed at 1st, or pitcher was not holding the ball... I'm not sure I like Mike's solution, especially if this was a game that mattered, although I do admire it's elegance, and appreciate that in this case you're making a no-call where no-call was expected.

Needless to say, this whole sitch troubles me.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Dakota
I can see (and even agree) with this for a routine league game. Wait around long enough to give a D-coach time to notice & then just leave.

But, what about a tournament? State tournament? National tournament?

Same answer?

Don't know. Probably up to and including the state level. Past that, probably not, but I would hope that a team going to that level would be a bit more meticulous and better coached.

Could you use the LBR? Yeah, as long as the ball was returned to the pitcher and she stayed in the circle. I would, however, be discussing this with my partner before going into the field declaring people out. I would want him/her to at least be aware of what is going to happen.

[SWFLguy]

IrishMafia gives the common sense answer !!
Sometimes very VERY strange things happen--
especially in a youth game.
Once I had a foul tip and a runner on 3rd advanced
to home-- her coach yelled to her to go back to 3rd
as it was a "foul ball" I simply said nothing and let
the game continue !!
"No calls" are cool !!

[WestMichBlue]

Hooray for Irish and SWL. We get so hung up on these boards when trying to apply an absolute rule certainty that we lose track of the fact that these are recreation games for kids. 12U means probably 10 and 11 year olds - 4th and 5th graders!

If these kids think the game is over, its OK by me. Toss the balls to the coaches and I'm outta here.

WMB

[debeau]

Yes even some NZ Umpires agree .
Just let it happen , if the coaches arnt up to it why carry on .
Interesting to note what a protest would come up with .
Would the protest even be accepted . (protest NOT appeal )

[rickfriedmann]

I'd like to follow up on this, as new to fastpitch. Since the winning run has not yet scored, and the third out has not been made, SHOULD the umpires leave the field even if the teams do? Shouldn't we call them back to the field without actually telling them why, if for no other reason than the umpires have just walked off the field of a TIE GAME. This is not a runner passing a base and the defense walking off without appealing.
Alternatively, wouldn't you ring up R3 as the third out for abandoning her next base to go to the celebration? Not really any different than BR stopping halfway to first and running into the dugout. Or R1, R2, or R3 running into the dugout after an home run without touching home.
I'm not picking nits, I'm trying to figure out how this game can be anything BUT tied.

[rickfriedmann]

Of course, there IS another way to work this out - since the ball's still live on ball four, eject any offensive player in the celebration in live ball territory not wearing her helmet. That will bring the offense down to forfeit country. Then forfeit the defense for not returning to their positions promptly. Double forfeit. Everyone's happy.
PLEASE do NOT think I mean this! Just letting my imagination wander!

[mcrowder]

Rick - you can't call a girl out for abandoning a base if she stays in the field of play. There is no actual rule that says a runner on third can't run toward first before going home. Play is not over unless she actually leaves the field.

On the other hand, can we even call her out if she enters the dugout... she's been forced home on the base award to the BR. Is she out for missing home if she's not appealled for missing it?

Consider a less complex case. Bases loaded, none out. Batter walks, R1 on third simply jogs to her dugout (on the 1st base side), and defense doesn't appeal. Is this an out or a run?

In the original sitch, R1 is not out, is still on the field of play, and defense has not officially abandoned the infield to nullify their chances at an appeal. We are in limbo.

Mike's solution is clean, and I'm not looking for nits. But if this was a tourney game, I'd DAMN well better be sure all play is over before I leave.

[Dakota]

Abandoning the base and entering DBT is not an appeal play. OUT.

Missing the base and entering DBT is an appeal play. Not out until appealed.

Which did your runner do?