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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 08, 2005, 01:13pm
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FP, ASA & NFHS

Top of the 4th inning with 2 outs, R1 on 1B. Pitcher bats and gets a
single advancing R1 to 3B. Manager request times reports that a CR is
going in for pitcher(R2). Next batter singles scoring R1 and R2 (CR)
is safe at 2B, but injured on the play. The team has no legal substitutes.
Manger has the following options:
A) Play short handed, take an out for R2 (CR).
B) Pitcher is re-enetered and takes the place of the CR (R2)
C) The CR (R2) is declared out, pitcher is re-entered.
D) R1, who scored on the play, replaces the injured CR as no sub is
available.
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Old Tue Feb 08, 2005, 01:19pm
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B - if no available substitutes, pitcher (or catcher) can return to bases to replace CR (new for FED in 2005)

WMB
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 08, 2005, 01:25pm
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Smile

B for NFHS is correct.

How about for ASA?
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"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things
that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines.
Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore. Dream. Discover."
--Mark Twain.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 09, 2005, 03:01pm
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Not to get techinal BUT

It's not a RE-ENTRY because F1 has never left the game. She just reassume her place for the CR after reporting. In NFHS.

Dont see any provision in the ASA rules for CR becoming injured so my opinion if they could not continue the coach would have to take the out.

JMO

Don
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 09, 2005, 04:17pm
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I'm treating ASA the same as Fed for CR's. Knowing that these 2 sanctioning bodies will continue to try & come to agreement on rules where possible AND knowing that the rules differences book does not show a difference between the Fed & ASA CR, I'm gonna say handle ASA's CR the same way that you handle Fed's CR.

So,

B for both Fed & ASA
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 09, 2005, 04:58pm
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In ASA Rule 8 Section 10

F. Once the courtesy runner is designated for that half-
inning, the pitcher or the catcher for whom she is running
may not return to run while that courtesy runner is on base.
A CR may cannot run for a CR.

There is an exception: If an injury or disqualification occur
to any offensive player, and no subs are available, the CR must
take the place of the injured player. In this case, the CR enters
as a sub and the pitcher or catcher for whom the CR is running,
must run in her place.

Sooo, for ASA the correct response is A.

glen
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"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things
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Explore. Dream. Discover."
--Mark Twain.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 09, 2005, 06:10pm
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Even though the exception does not specifically address that CR becoming injured, it does provide for the F1/2 to return to base in case of injury.

I'd allow it. Might be the wrong test answer, but I'd allow it. (My rebellious streak showing though!)
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 09, 2005, 06:28pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dakota
Even though the exception does not specifically address that CR becoming injured, it does provide for the F1/2 to return to base in case of injury.
__________________________________________________ ________

Only if the CR is to have to sub for an injured player.
__________________________________________________ _________
I'd allow it. Might be the wrong test answer, but I'd allow it. (My rebellious streak showing though!)
__________________________________________________ _________

And the protest would follow.

glen

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glen _______________________________
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things
that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines.
Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore. Dream. Discover."
--Mark Twain.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 09, 2005, 09:16pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by whiskers_ump
FP, ASA & NFHS

Top of the 4th inning with 2 outs, R1 on 1B. Pitcher bats and gets a
single advancing R1 to 3B. Manager request times reports that a CR is
going in for pitcher(R2). Next batter singles scoring R1 and R2 (CR)
is safe at 2B, but injured on the play. The team has no legal substitutes.
Manger has the following options:
A) Play short handed, take an out for R2 (CR).
B) Pitcher is re-enetered and takes the place of the CR (R2)
C) The CR (R2) is declared out, pitcher is re-entered.
D) R1, who scored on the play, replaces the injured CR as no sub is
available.
B for Fed and ASA

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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 09, 2005, 09:23pm
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Mike,

Please give me the rule number.

Thanks,
glen
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glen _______________________________
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things
that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines.
Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore. Dream. Discover."
--Mark Twain.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 09, 2005, 10:10pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by whiskers_ump
Mike,

Please give me the rule number.

Thanks,
glen
ASA
8.10.D
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 09, 2005, 10:56pm
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Wrong situation, Mike. 8-10-D and 8-10-F restrict the CR from being a substitute in the same half inning, or prevent the pitcher/catcher from returning to the base to run for the CR.

The exception in both cases over-rides D & F in the case of another player that is injured.

ASA does not address the issue of a CR being the injured party. If a CR is injured while on base, 8-10-F prevents the pitcher/catcher from returning to run. The coach must enter a sub for the CR, which puts the pitcher/catcher out of the game.

NFHS recognized that and added another exception in 2005 that allows for the pitcher/catcher to return and run for an injured CR. (But the coach still has the option to sub for the CR, and thus remove the pitcher/catcher - same as ASA.)

WMB
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 10, 2005, 01:12pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by WestMichBlue
Wrong situation, Mike. 8-10-D and 8-10-F restrict the CR from being a substitute in the same half inning, or prevent the pitcher/catcher from returning to the base to run for the CR.

The exception in both cases over-rides D & F in the case of another player that is injured.

ASA does not address the issue of a CR being the injured party. If a CR is injured while on base, 8-10-F prevents the pitcher/catcher from returning to run. The coach must enter a sub for the CR, which puts the pitcher/catcher out of the game.

NFHS recognized that and added another exception in 2005 that allows for the pitcher/catcher to return and run for an injured CR. (But the coach still has the option to sub for the CR, and thus remove the pitcher/catcher - same as ASA.)

WMB
8.10.F says the pitcher or catcher cannot return while a courtesy runner is on the base. If they are injured to the point that they must leave the game, the are no longer on the base.

If the CR can enter a game for another player who is injured, there is no reason to keep a player who has not left the game on the bench.

Serg, if you remember, have me ask Bob or Kevin about this at the DC Clinic.


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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 11, 2005, 11:51am
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
Quote:
8.10.F says the pitcher or catcher cannot return while a courtesy runner is on the base. If they are injured to the point that they must leave the game, the are no longer on the base.

If the CR can enter a game for another player who is injured, there is no reason to keep a player who has not left the game on the bench.

Serg, if you remember, have me ask Bob or Kevin about this at the DC Clinic.

Mike,

No problem. I had the same answer as you.

Serg
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 11, 2005, 01:48pm
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Then the rule book should be changed to allow it, so as we are
all on the same page. 8-10F says no.

glen
__________________
glen _______________________________
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things
that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines.
Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore. Dream. Discover."
--Mark Twain.
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