<b>From the ASA test:</b>

44. Which of the following is a force out:

A) Runner retreats to a base after a caught fly ball and the thrown ball beats the runner to the bag.

B) The batter-runner and a runner are both standing on 1B and the fielder tags the batter-runner.

C) The fielder tags 1B with their glove while holding the ball in the other hand before the batter-runner reaches 1B.

D) None of the above.

<b>Well, what's the answer?</b>

[Edited by greymule on Feb 4th, 2005 at 05:58 PM]

My answer
 

A is an appeal play.

B. Nobody is out...yet.

C. is the answer.

Well?

ASA also gives C as the answer.

I thought it might be a trick question. See definition of "force play."

Throw out the tests, they are invalid.

New tests will be provided.

C is the answer.

<b>Throw out the tests, they are invalid.</b>

There do appear to be problems. Four questions are identical or almost identical to four others (25/52, 2/53, 26/66, 38/100).

Like Mike said, throw out the test.
Oklahoma City said the last 50 questions of the test are definately messed up.

D is the correct answer
 

Hadnt taken the test yet and dont know what the correct answer by the key is BUT the correct answer by the defination is D. Only a runner that is forced to run because the batter becomes a batter-runner is considered a FORCE by rule.


JMO

Don

Re: D is the correct answer
 

Don,

C is the correct answer. This isn't a NFHS test. Don't think in highly specific terms. If a runner or BR may be put out while in route to a base by tagging the base instead of the runner, consider it a force out. After all, like a "forced" runner, the BR is forced to advance to 1B if they wish to be safe. (Exception: Where players are not required to advance on a HR or four-base aware).

I disagree. Especially considering in how many places the tests try to trick you with wordsmithing. As many have stated (you, yourself, included, Mike) - a play at first on the BR is NOT a force - it's just an out.

In C - the BR is definitely OUT ... but also definitely not a FORCE out.

Speaking ASA, this is not a trick question hinging on the definition of Force Out. ASA is not OBR.

ASA 8-7-G

I stand corrected. Is it my fuzzy memory misquoting Mike (god of ASA) as calling a play on the BR at first NOT a force out?

Must be.

I disagree. I don't believe ASA even comes close to playing the word games NFHS has in the past.

Let me say this. The past weekend at the UIC clinic, more than once the term "force" was used by a member of the NUS for putting out the BR at 1B.

You must think of it as a generic term. We all know what it is and should handle it as such. Y'all make things difficult on yourself.

Even those who insist on making it difficult on themselves - I NEVER do that! ;) - can find it in black and white in rule 8-7-G (as posted above).

Any idea on when the new test will be provided?

Yes

Well, you did answer Scott's question.

Although I was told it would be on the ASA site, I still
do not see the information.

It's true that 8-7-G calls the out at 1B a force out. But ASA's definition does not.

If the out at 1B is a force out, then a BR who reaches 1B safely but then steps backward toward home plate (for example, under the misconception that his fly ball has been caught) does not have to be tagged but can be put out by a simple tag of 1B.

When I've posed situations and used "force" as a sort of shorthand generic term to describe the out at 1B, other posters have been quick with their corrections.

The problem with reinstating the force on the BR is the batter does not "occupy" home and there are very few regulations regarding the path of a BR who overruns 1B (basically, she can go anywhere except dead ball territory as long as there is no try for 2nd).

One of the things I am amused by when I drop by the baseball boards is all of the word parsing going on. It has a distinct resemblance to theologians discussing the 11th chapter of Daniel or mystics discussing the writings of Nostradamus. IOW, they treat it a holy writ.

Fortunately, as much as we poke fun at ASA "editing" from time to time, it is much more clearly written overall than OBR.

8-7-G makes it clear that the BR is forced to 1B. We don't need to overly parse the definition's wording.

It's OK with me that the out at 1B is a force. But if it is, ASA should revise its definition to include the BR at 1B.