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-   -   Running bases after 3 outs (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/18208-running-bases-after-3-outs.html)

greymule Fri Feb 04, 2005 02:24pm

Derived from a current baseball discussion, but it could pertain to ASA:

Play #1:

Abel on 3B, Baker on 1B, 2 out.

Charles gets a hit, misses 1B. Abel scores, Baker is thrown out at 3B for out #3. F5 rolls the ball toward the mound.

Coach yells for defense to throw the ball to 1B to appeal Charles's miss and get an advantageous 4th out to nullify Abel's run. Charles, who was standing on 2B, retreats to 1B and beats the throw.

Play #2

Abel on 3B, 2 out.

Baker gets a hit and misses 1B. Abel scores, and Baker is thrown out at 2B. F6 rolls the ball toward the mound.

Coach yells to defense to appeal Baker's miss and get a 4th out. Baker retreats toward 1B. The defense retrieves the ball but throws to 1B too late to get Baker.

What would you call in these 2 plays?

SC Ump Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:02pm

This is ask about ASA which I don't know. For FED in both plays, as soon as the defensive coach yelled to the players, I would consider this a dead ball appeal and make the call then.

georgelog Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:00pm

Let's try a little common sense here. First: Nowhere in any code does a player that is declared out have any rights to correct anything.** Once you're out, you're out.
Second: Once the half inning ends the ball is dead. A player cannot correct a base running error when the ball is dead UNLESS an award of bases occurs - not the case here.
Third: If the BU/PU failed to notice the miss at 1st, there's no doubt that the BR missed 1st when he runs back to tag up.

Play 1 - BR out (4th out appeal), no run scores

Play 2 - BR out (4th out appeal), no run scores

** there was some chatter on one of the baseball boards about 2 or 3 years ago about a player tagged out on the 3rd base side of 2nd while returning to 2nd trying to correct a base running error, ie: runner missed 2nd and immediately tried to return and correct it. Question was "does the defense lose their right to appeal the missed base since the runner was attempting correct his mistake?" It was highly debated with no firm conclusion. I've not seen it sense. However, that senerio was nothing like Play 1 or Play 2.

George in NC

greymule Sun Feb 06, 2005 02:09pm

<b>First: Nowhere in any code does a player that is declared out have any rights to correct anything.** Once you're out, you're out.</b>

At least in OBR, it's a bit more complicated than that. Yes, you're out, but there is at least one type of play in which a runner who has been put out can prevent an appeal of a missed base by touching that missed base.

<b>Second: Once the half inning ends the ball is dead.</b>

But the third out doesn't necessarily end the half inning. An advantageous 4th out can be made with a live ball, and not just an appeal. (Abel on 3B, Baker on 2B, 2 out. Charles grounds to F5, who tags Baker for the third out after Abel crosses home. Abel then throws to 1B in time to get Charles and nullify Abel's run.)

The consensus on the baseball board seems (now) to be that as long as fielders can make plays, runners can run bases. I'm wondering how ASA would handle it.


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