2nd inning,12u,and by the way,late july,heatindex 115, Im calling by myself,A ROOKIE,batter/runner hits slow roller to f-4,I bust it down to a position about 8 ft short of 1st base,and about 10 ft inside the foul line,f-4 throws into the dirt,I (rim)towards 2nd to a position about 5 ft from 2nd base,in a line from the pitching plate to 2nd base,got a great look at the play! OUT!!! i start walking towards the dish and about the time i reach the pitchers plate the coach appears in front of me hollering how can you make that call? its wrong! I say: coach if you liked that call,youre gonna love this one! YOURE GONE! He got his moneys worth(on the way to the parking lot) .............PLAY BALL! (Handled properly or improperly?) By the way,i called the next week with his team in a tourney in another city and no problems at alll!

Looks like you answered your own question with that last line....

His team actually won the week of the incident,AND the next week also!

If that was truly the extent of the actual "conversation", (with no physical show to add) I think you need to invest in a trigger lock.

I know to you yay-hoos, that is like putting a child-proof lock on a can of Play-dough, but even by my standards, that is a quick thumb.

JMHO,

Well...here is one yay-hoo who agrees with you Mike. That was a pretty quick toss if that was all that had happened.

Here is what we know...

Coach is upset and yelling;

Coach has entered the field of play during a live ball;

Coach has blocked the umpire's way back to the plate to visibly confront the umpire in the middle of the field;

Coach is yelling about a judgment call.

I agree the immediate ejection is hair-triggered, but (continuing the gun analogy) the safety should have definitely been off!

add another Texas yay-hoo to the list that says that was a quick thumb, slow down you don't have to be a gunslinger

That was the extent of the conversation.......its kinda hard to type his attitude and by the way,I do feel that no coach comes onto the field of play unless there is an injured player or he has requested time,and been GRANTED time! Quick thumb? MAYBE! Had he benn a little more civil,MAYBE he wouldnt have got tossed! Maybe,but i draw the line at coaches entering the field without being GRA NTED time! He probably would have been tossed anyway! Its funny how quickly they learn NOT to do that! Entering the field like that to argue a call is unsportsmanlike conduct! Hence:auto eject!

Before you start thinking i enter the field looking for someone to eject! I called about 120 games last year,including fall ball,whether it be players,coaches,or fans,in all of those games he was the only person I tossed!

Nay,

Coach needed to go. Upset, yelling, on field with live ball, blocking
return to position, and all on a judgment. Would have been my first
for the year.

Mike: WITH ALL DUE RESPECT,you and a couple others seem to be quite happy calling me a texas gunslinger,fast on the trigger,and assorted crap like that,THATS OK!,BUT I JUST DONT ENCOURAGE COACHES TO ENTER THE FIELD AT ANY TIME THEY PLEASE! (Kinda dissappointed in your attitude,but if you know everything,oh well!!!!!)

1) If you were 8 ft from 1st to make the first call, you were too close for a force play. You should be between 10-15 feet for a force call.

2) If you were 5 ft from 2nd base for the tag play at a 45 degree angle, if you ended up there you were about right, if you started there, you were too close (8-10 ft starting point). I know you were working one man, but you are too close.

3) AND MOST IMPORTANT: I agree with Mike and John, too quick on the trigger. Probably in 100+ heat and being by yourself didn't help, but you should try to keep coaches in the game if possible.

What could you have done differently to diffuse the situation and keep that coach in the game? Maybe nothing, but maybe there was. Just something to think about if it happens again.

I use a simple question like "coach if you're trying to get run to fire your girls up, let me know and we can put on a good show". They usually get the hint. If not, you have given them a warning

Put on a show?

Now that has to be really great for the integrity of the game!

probably even better than allowing coaches to enter the field,under live-ball circumstance,to yell at an umpire over a judgement call? Blocking the umpires path back to the plate? Great call!

Keep your day job!

Roger:

I assumed your post was to get feedback on whether or not you handled this situation properly. I am simply giving you my opinion. Use it or not. If you posted to let everybody know what a great ump you are for running a coach, you should have just told us.

Why are you so defensive. Read different posts, throw out the opinions you don't want to use and put into practice the ones you do.

There are some umps here that have been doing this a long time and have a lot of wisdom. Listen to them, they will make your job easier and make you a better umpire.

Roger,

Even tho I agreed with your ejection and for several reasons,
you do seem to get offensive when people respond to your questions.
DNTUM P gave good advice.

Don't be so quick to judge how your question was answered. There
are a lot of years of experience of umpiring and rule guru's on
this board. These guys are sharp and most are only trying to be
helpful.

That's why we read this.

The problem with writing things is that many times people cannot feel the meaning as they can when people are talking.

Relax Roger, our job is to manage the game not be the game. I wasn't there. I didn't see the coaches demeanor. Maybe he kicked himself out. We can and need to control the tension on the field and put out the fire calmly before they become blazes.

This probably was one of those had to be there type situations to really make a judgement, but remember you did ask for an opinion based on you're story. This forum won't do you any good if you are going to get you're feelings hurt because you don't like the answers you get.
Just remember, don't go looking for trouble when on the field it will find you often enough without any help.
Good game managment doesn't have anything to do with worrying about who's field it is or requesting time to you're satisfaction . If you were walking back to the plate with you're back to the runners and an infielder with the ball then thats really looking for trouble otherwise the pitcher should have had the ball in the circle you're heading to the plate and the ball was dead, look at it the same as if you came out to clean the plate you may not have called time to do it but as soon as you turn you're back to the infield you've got time. So if the coach came out to talk to you and wasn't making anything personal why did you feel the need to eject him right then? Answer his question and move on if he continues then ring him up. We are there to manage and judge their game it's reasonable to assume you will be asked to explain that judgement from time to time. Just because he may have raised his voice a little, phrased the question in a manner that may not have been as polite as you would like or came on the field to talk face to face..would you rather he scream from the dugout?.. doesn't always make it USC. This is a competitive sport and players and coaches will get caught up in the moment sometimes.
So the "put on a show" comment gives the coach an out without having to eject or threaten to eject (another bad habit) and still gets youre point across.
The most important thing you need is a thick skin. Don't put up with any crap from coaches and players but let them play. You don't want to CONTROL the game, were in the managment business and there is a differance.

Roger...You asked a group of seasoned umpires for an opinion on something, and then you get mad if the answer doesnt fit? it may be a situation where we would have to be there to get the full effect from the coach, but dont be offended if someone tells you it was kinda quick. It looks like it might have been. Why not do this. Call time.Explain to the coach that he is NOT to walk onto the field during a live ball situtation, and THEN address his issue. If he refuses to listen to you during this conversation THEN eject him. Now if hes been barking all game, the trigger might be quicker... and dont be upset by the terminology Mr. Rowe uses. just listen to his message..

Let's get back to this live ball talk. If an umpire is working solo and turns to go back to their position at the plate, you shouldn't have a live ball situation.

I'm not saying the coach was correct, but when was the last time ANYONE saw a coach who wanted to discuss a play stand off to the side, waving to the umpire saying, "My good man, would you kindly divert your path in this direction so I may vigorously voice my objection to your decision"?

Mike,all he needed to do was say time,it would have been granted! Then we could have discussed the call in a proper way! Him getting tossed was brought on by himself! Im having a little difficulty understanding why you say it was wrong to toss him. I dont want to toss anyone,but NO coach is going to run out on the field,arguing a call!!!!

He can do all the barking he wants to from the dugout,but when he crosses the line,that is plain wrong and im sure he knew it.

I just dont think thats necessarily automatic. Im sure it didnt cross his mind when he came to you about the call.... why not just remind him?

I guess its like ol blue said,you had to be there.

Yes you would..but just remember,I would NOT use walking on the field during a live ball as an automatic trigger... this wont be the last time it happens..

Darrell,he didnt WALK onto the field! After I made the call I had taken maybe 5-6 steps toward the plate,adjusting my clicker as i walked,I look up and hes in front of me! KEEP IN MIND,hescoming from the 3rd base coaching box. That is not walking on the field,that is charging!

It will NOT be the last time it happens....

I absolutely agree with that!

My point is that you might want to find a different method to handle it.

Let's see, you turned your back to the play without suspending play. You are more interested in ejecting a coach (and from what I can see from your posts, gloating about it) than the answers to the question your asked. You are walking blindly (looking at your INDICATOR, it's not a damn clicker) toward the plate. Now, you didn't even see the coach approach you, but you have now declared that he charged you! With all of this, I have to question if you even know what charging is.

Just a reminder, you are not talking to your high school buddies here. Some of us have been around a long time and have seen situations that you may not incur in a lifetime. Many of us also have experience at levels much higher than you will see if there isn't some type of adjustment to your game.

Calm down, listen to the responses. We are not just pulling them out of our collective asses, we have an idea of what we speak.

Roger - first, you asked, so don't get pissed off that we answered. If you just wanted confirmation that you're a big man for ejecting him, go talk to your buddies, not us.

Working alone in the heat sucks, but we've all been there. And nearly everyone here has their own particular line that coaches shall not cross. However, we need to be cognizant that our fuses may be shorter in those situations, and make a conscious effort to diffuse things when possible.

Second - instead of looking down, if you were looking up as you returned to the plate, you could easily have "reminded" the coach not to come onto the field without calling time, and defused this early (if he kept coming at you after that, I'm right there with ya - buh-bye, coach). And especially since it doesn't sound like you called time on your own, you should be heads-up and not looking at anything but the field of play until you DO call time.

By the way,i was NOT gloating! think whatever you want,I damn sure wont bother you again!

Reminds me of Sam or some others on another board.

Maybe he was quick on the trigger with that temper.

Glen,

Even Sam is not that hot headed.

Heck, Mike and others tick me off somtetimes too, but I still enjoy a good argument. I will even concede when the logic is overwhelming.

This is the second time Roger has threatened to take his ball and go home. I say let him. We'll all pass the hat and buy ourselves a new ball.

Kevin

Check out his first reply on the "Preventive Officiating" post. It doesn't jibe with his attitude here. Roger Bridges
Member

Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 44
Being a 2nd year ump im very interested in the responses to this post! We are hosting state for 14u and16u this year and i appreciate all your views,stories,sharing of knowledge,etc.

[Edited by KJ'sDAD on Jan 4th, 2005 at 08:10 PM]

Yes, that should have read:

Being a 2nd year ump I'm completely uninterested in the responses to this post! I will not appreciate all your views unless they agree 100% with mine. I have no interest in the sharing of knowledge,etc, unless such knowledge comes from me directly. Listen to my great story to hear what a big man I am.

Boy, am I glad that is over! The exclamation point key on Roger's keyboard must be worn out!
A little 'right back at ya' advice, Roger. Don't quit YOUR day job. It doesn't appear like you'll be going very far in the officiating game.

Trolls!! When did the Trolls come back?

Kinda reminds you of "BBALLCOACH", doesn't it?

You know, actually I think that it is Mike Rowe playing
the part of his favorite poster, BDB. All the fuss came
after he, Mike, posted his reply.

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/Gif/couch.gif

His Caps key was also worn out.

Absence...
 

they say absence makes the heart grow fonder, but in Roger's case, I'll make an exception.

hey...maybe it IS Mike impersonating someone else...

Nope, can't be me 'cause I'm not very good at impersonating anyone. After all, I'm not from Texas!!!!

JUST KIDDING!!!!!! ;)

Mike,

We knew it wasn't you because we stopped importing yankees, but we could see about a temporary work visa.



[Edited by DNTXUM P on Jan 6th, 2005 at 12:15 AM]

How about a "gringo" card instead? ;)

ONLY IF YOU CAN EAT TEX-MEX

Nay, you don't qualify. http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/Gif/homjump.gif,
That is unless you learn the Texas Two Step.

:D